We have all been there!

[3offTheTee]

Played in an Open Comp today with 2 guys I had never bet before.

On Par 3 guy 1 playing off 15 says to guy 2 playing off 12 says what did you take there? 8 iron he said! Not sure whether they were aware of the rules.

What do you do?

 

[Imurg]

If Guy 1 has already played I have a feeling he's ok asking - I could have dreamed this however.........

 

[noble78]

If Guy 1 has already played I have a feeling he's ok asking - I could have dreamed this however.........

Rules say during a round a player is not allowed to give or ask for advice, 2 stoke penalty

 

[Imurg]

Decision 8-1/6

Q. During play of the 6th hole, A asked B what club he (B) had used on the 4th hole, which is a par-3 of a similar length. Was A in breach of Rule 8-1?

A. No

So I was almost right......

 

[3offTheTee]

This was on the same hole and they both should have had a 2 shot penalty.

 

[Imurg]

If the question can be asked , as in the decision, a couple of holes later without penalty, what is the difference if the question is asked once both have played from the tee....?
It's after the shots have been taken in both cases........
ColinL, Rulefan, Duncan, Mashie........input please.....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Surely after both have played their tee-shots to the hole the clubs they have used become a matter of fact rather than opinion or advice - so no penalty.

 

[Colin L]

It's worth taking a look at how advice is defined:

“Advice’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

If both players have played, there is no breach if either asks the other what club he used. Knowing what club the other player used cannot help determine your play of a shot which you have already made. The question can be asked on the tee as soon as the strokes have been made.

As an afterthought, it would also be ok for A who has already played his shot to ask B what club he is about to use, but not something I would do as it seems poor manners - intrusive when you should be letting the guy get on with his shot.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

This is a rule which has always confused me.

My understanding (which is likely wrong) is ...

You can offer information if you like. i.e. "that was a 7 iron".

You can ask questions which have a definite answer, but the other person is not obliged to answer. But you are not allowed to ask opinion/advice questions.

i.e.

if A comes up short, I thought B could say "was that an 8?" ... with B of course not being obliged to answer.
But didn't think you could ask opinion / advice questions such as "do you think I'll get there with a 7?".

 

[CMAC]

I thought it was always very plain and common sense...

I ask after I've played NOT before...........and I only ask someone else who has already played, anything else could be construed as gamesmanship, cheating or just plain rude.


Team games of course you can ask your playing partner anything at anytime and offer any advice at anytime

 

[Region3]

It's worth taking a look at how advice is defined:

“Advice’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

If both players have played, there is no breach if either asks the other what club he used. Knowing what club the other player used cannot help determine your play of a shot which you have already made. The question can be asked on the tee as soon as the strokes have been made.

As an afterthought, it would also be ok for A who has already played his shot to ask B what club he is about to use, but not something I would do as it seems poor manners - intrusive when you should be letting the guy get on with his shot.

Your italicised text makes no mention of how soon after the 'advice' it may influence said player.

Say we've both just teed off from a par 3 and hit the same distance. I ask you what club you hit and you say 8 iron.
I hit a 7 iron so I now know you are a club longer than me.
On the next par 3 I see you take a 6 iron out of your bag and you put it pin high. I now know it's a 5 iron for me.

Is that not the same thing the rule is there to prevent?

 

[Foxholer]

Your italicised text makes no mention of how soon after the 'advice' it may influence said player.

Say we've both just teed off from a par 3 and hit the same distance. I ask you what club you hit and you say 8 iron.
I hit a 7 iron so I now know you are a club longer than me.
On the next par 3 I see you take a 6 iron out of your bag and you put it pin high. I now know it's a 5 iron for me.

Is that not the same thing the rule is there to prevent?

No problem!

Instead of asking what club they are using, you can even look into his/her bag to see what one is missing - provide you don't move/uncover anything in the process!

 

[3offTheTee]

Think I should clarify original post. Player A played his shot. BEFORE Player B played his shot he asked Player A, "What did you play there?"Player A advised him that he had played a 7 iron.

IMO it was a 2 shot penalty for both. If Player A had responded and said I cannot answer that question I assume Player B would have a 2 shot penalty.

My main question was whether you would call penalty on both players?

 

[CMAC]

Your italicised text makes no mention of how soon after the 'advice' it may influence said player.

Say we've both just teed off from a par 3 and hit the same distance. I ask you what club you hit and you say 8 iron.
I hit a 7 iron so I now know you are a club longer than me.
On the next par 3 I see you take a 6 iron out of your bag and you put it pin high. I now know it's a 5 iron for me.

Is that not the same thing the rule is there to prevent?

but it was maybe a 100% 8 iron, toed in and off the back foot:smirk:

assumptions are a dangerous thing, best play your own game and take the numerous variables of your partners swing out the equation.

 

[Colin L]

Your italicised text makes no mention of how soon after the 'advice' it may influence said player.

Say we've both just teed off from a par 3 and hit the same distance. I ask you what club you hit and you say 8 iron.
I hit a 7 iron so I now know you are a club longer than me.
On the next par 3 I see you take a 6 iron out of your bag and you put it pin high. I now know it's a 5 iron for me.

Is that not the same thing the rule is there to prevent?

I don't see it like that. The set of circumstances that surround playing a shot at one hole are likely to be unique. At best, you have some notion that club for club I maybe play longer. But I may have choked back a bit on my 6 on that hole and may take a full 6 iron to get further on another hole. I might have thinned it and and got further than normal. Wind direction, slope, nature of the green, pin position .... all sorts of factors may differ.

I would suggest that simply learning what club my FC used at one hole cannot not influence me in determining my play, choice of club or method of making a stroke at another because the information is not relevant. And that's what Decision 8-1/6 seems to be saying.

It would be a different matter if my FC said to me after I had played a particular shot, "I thought your hands were too far in front of the ball in that last shot." That is something that could transfer to your later play. That would be advice.