Water in a bunker

[turkish]

Sorry if this has been done to death but our head pro told me a rule which I am sure was wrong though my PP agreed with him so maybe I am in the wrong.

I hit my ball into a bunker where about 60-70% was under water. My ball went into the dry part and the water did not impede my swing or stance- just a horribly soggy plugged lie to deal with. Bunker was not classed as GUR

Head pro was happening to drive by on Buggie so I asked for a ruling- he said that I have to play it as it lay which I wasn't sure of but ok wasn't too much of an issue...

but then he said the other daft rule is that if it lands in the water but the bunker is not GUR you need to lift and drop out but it's a 1 stroke penalty? Surely I shouldn't be penalised for hitting into a bunker when you don't even know there is water in there til you get up and see it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If the bunker hasn't been deemed GUR you can take relief from the casual water but the ball must be dropped in the bunker still. If coming out of the bunker then it's a one shot penalty

http://www.golfgrinder.com/rules/rules-of-golf-relief-from-bunkers/

Rule 25-1

 

[turkish]

So he was right thanks- need to remember the part about dropping in bunker.

Even if you need to drop into a bit with shallow water(like maybe 1/4 covered of ball) and confident of getting out rather than getting penalty surely that's a better option

 

[IanG]

Note if you're dropping you have to drop in a spot that is no nearer the hole - not always possible to find a dry spot if the bunker is full of water.

 

[woody69]

Sorry if this has been done to death but our head pro told me a rule which I am sure was wrong though my PP agreed with him so maybe I am in the wrong.

I hit my ball into a bunker where about 60-70% was under water. My ball went into the dry part and the water did not impede my swing or stance- just a horribly soggy plugged lie to deal with. Bunker was not classed as GUR

Head pro was happening to drive by on Buggie so I asked for a ruling- he said that I have to play it as it lay which I wasn't sure of but ok wasn't too much of an issue...

but then he said the other daft rule is that if it lands in the water but the bunker is not GUR you need to lift and drop out but it's a 1 stroke penalty? Surely I shouldn't be penalised for hitting into a bunker when you don't even know there is water in there til you get up and see it?

People often struggle to get their head around this, but it isn't a daft rule. For starters, it is a hazard. You shouldn't really be in there and if you are, it can be difficult to get out of, but that is by the by. If the entire bunker is flooded and there is no where to drop within the bunker, people often ask how it is fair they should be penalised a shot when they are effectively forced to take a drop outside of the bunker? Well firstly you don't have to be penalised. You are well within your rights to play it as it lies or drop it like you said later in a shallower part of the bunker that is flooded. But if you did decide to lift and drop outside of the bunker then how would it be fair to the other competitors if you were able to drop into a potentially nice lie with no penalty? Players could start aiming towards bunkers they know are flooded.

I like to point towards the flip-side argument that occasionally happens in the summer when your ball rolls into a water hazard that has receded due to evaporation that makes it now playable without having to take a penalty drop. In that instance you went into the hazard but haven't been penalised and can continue without a penalty.

 

[louise_a]

So he was right thanks- need to remember the part about dropping in bunker.

Even if you need to drop into a bit with shallow water(like maybe 1/4 covered of ball) and confident of getting out rather than getting penalty surely that's a better option

Surely you cannot to this, because you need to take full relief and just dropping in another part of the water is not full relief.

 

[woody69]

Surely you cannot to this, because you need to take full relief and just dropping in another part of the water is not full relief.

Partial relief may be taken in a bunker where full relief is not possible.

 

[louise_a]

I stand corrected.

 

[woody69]

I stand corrected.

It is rule 25-1b-(ii)a in case you were interested!

(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker
and the ball must be dropped in the bunker
or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course
in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or

 

[louise_a]

Yes, I looked it up after I had posted and realised I was wrong.

 

[Billysboots]

Having to drop in a wet bunker and not then being able to roll the ball a finger turn out of the inevitable plugged lie is one if the stupidest rules in golf, right up there with having to play from a divot in the middle of a perfectly mown fairway.

 

[backwoodsman]

It is rule 25-1b-(ii)a in case you were interested!

(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker
and the ball must be dropped in the bunker
or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course
in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or

Yes, I looked it up after I had posted and realised I was wrong.

I suspect there a point to be debated here.

The scenario is that the ball is in a plugged & soggy lie (as opposed to being in standing water). The relief being taken is for the soggy lie not the plugged ball. So is dropping the ball into standing water really going to count as dropping in the spot that affords maximum relief? Forget the plugged bit - it's not relevant. It's (easily in my mind) arguable that you'd be dropping in a worse lie as regards the casual water?

 

[KenL]

Sorry, but I think that this IS a daft rule - totally unfair. I am a pretty good bunker player but what chance do you have in this situation?

 

[SammmeBee]

Having to drop in a wet bunker and not then being able to roll the ball a finger turn out of the inevitable plugged lie is one if the stupidest rules in golf, right up there with having to play from a divot in the middle of a perfectly mown fairway.

WTF is roll the ball a finger turn all about.....is that listed just before kick it with your foot if you don't like your lie in the rough?!

 

[williamalex1]

Note if you're dropping you have to drop in a spot that is no nearer the hole - not always possible to find a dry spot if the bunker is full of water.

How on earth would you know that :mmm:

 

[Billysboots]

WTF is roll the ball a finger turn all about.....is that listed just before kick it with your foot if you don't like your lie in the rough?!

Rule 25-2 allows a player to lift, clean and drop no nearer the hole from a plugged lie in closely mown areas. Many clubs, mine included, employ a local rule allowing players to roll a ball one turn from a plugged lie in the rough. I was merely suggesting something similar be allowed in bunkers.

Was there really any need for quite such an obnoxious reply?

 

[Foxholer]

Having to drop in a wet bunker and not then being able to roll the ball a finger turn out of the inevitable plugged lie is one if the stupidest rules in golf, right up there with having to play from a divot in the middle of a perfectly mown fairway.

Sorry, but I think that this IS a daft rule - totally unfair. I am a pretty good bunker player but what chance do you have in this situation?

Rules of Golf are not necessarily 'fair', simply equitable! And that applies to both this case AND to the 'divot' in an otherwise clean fairway situation! In the case of the water filled bunker, it is a hazard, so there's certainly reason to punish the player for being there; in the case of the fairway divot, there is also the question of whether it really IS a divot!

 

[Billysboots]

I don't disagree a bunker us a hazard, Foxholer. But taking relief from water and seeing the ball then plug is a little disproportionate. It has always seemed like a double whammy to find yourself in an awful plugged lie, particularly if the ball rolled into water in the first place.

As for divots, this is the sort of rule change many have been asking for for years. In most cases I would say what constitutes a divot is fairly obvious, but as with any ruling, if in doubt seek agreement from playing partners or play it as it lies.

 

[KenL]

A hazard yes, but I should be allowed a chance of an up and down.
I think that a full bunker should be automatically out of play and that you should be able to place in the bunker if taking relief.

Come on R&A, you know it makes sense!

 

[SammmeBee]

Rule 25-2 allows a player to lift, clean and drop no nearer the hole from a plugged lie in closely mown areas. Many clubs, mine included, employ a local rule allowing players to roll a ball one turn from a plugged lie in the rough. I was merely suggesting something similar be allowed in bunkers.

Was there really any need for quite such an obnoxious reply?

Which page is that in the Rules of Golf? Maybe I missed it......