Water hazards again.

[Beezerk]

Had a funny one yesterday, had just knocked in a hole in one and proceeded to slice my next tee shot down the right into what looked like tall rough.
I proceeded to hit a provisional which went down the middle (as they do).
As we were walking down the fairway it became apparent the area my ball had landed in was a water hazard, it was hard to spot from a distance as the yellow stakes were half hidden by tall grass.
We were a bit confused as to how I should proceed given we had not seen the hazard from the tee.
Was my provisional actually my ball in play as per normal water hazard rules or does the fact we didn't know it was a hazard change things?
Blobbed the hole anyway and it didn't really matter but I can't find much on the internet about this type of situation.

 

[woody69]

It all depends on if it is known or virtually certain the ball is in the water hazard

 

[Colin L]

Had a funny one yesterday, had just knocked in a hole in one and proceeded to slice my next tee shot down the right into what looked like tall rough.
I proceeded to hit a provisional which went down the middle (as they do).
As we were walking down the fairway it became apparent the area my ball had landed in was a water hazard, it was hard to spot from a distance as the yellow stakes were half hidden by tall grass.
We were a bit confused as to how I should proceed given we had not seen the hazard from the tee.
Was my provisional actually my ball in play as per normal water hazard rules or does the fact we didn't know it was a hazard change things?
Blobbed the hole anyway and it didn't really matter but I can't find much on the internet about this type of situation.

You did not know the water hazard was even there and there was a possibility your ball might be lost in the tall grass. . You were entitled to play a provisional ball. Decision 27-2a/2.5 is helpful.
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-27,d27-2a-2.5

What a wonderfully oblique way of slipping in that you had a hole in one. Congratulations. Mine's a Lagavullin, please.

 

[Beezerk]

You did not know the water hazard was even there and there was a possibility your ball might be lost in the tall grass. . You were entitled to play a provisional ball. Decision 27-2a/2.5 is helpful.
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-27,d27-2a-2.5

What a wonderfully oblique way of slipping in that you had a hole in one. Congratulations. Mine's a Lagavullin, please.

Bugger, so my provisional became void as soon as we discovered my original was in the hazard? If that's the case I could have dropped from the hazard as normal and had my 3rd shot from there rather than 4 from the fairway as I did.

 

[rulefan]

Bugger, so my provisional became void as soon as we discovered my original was in the hazard? If that's the case I could have dropped from the hazard as normal and had my 3rd shot from there rather than 4 from the fairway as I did.

Did you count the penalties for playing an incorrectly substituted ball?

 

[Beezerk]

Did you count the penalties for playing an incorrectly substituted ball?

Erm no, you're going to have to explain. Asked our pro today who said I did the right thing by playing the "provisional" ball, something to do with deeming the other lost by playing it, didn't really get what he meant and just confused me more 😄

 

[rulefan]

Erm no, you're going to have to explain.

Sorry, it was a wrong ball not a wrongly substituted ball.

Your original was the ball in play. Your provisional was now just a stray ball. When you played that stray ball from the fairway you played a wrong ball. That is a penalty of two strokes. You now have to correct the situation before you make a stroke on the next tee. If you don't, you are DQd.

The preceding assumes stroke play. I match play, you simply lose the hole.

Rule 15-3

I'll address the pro's ruling in another post.

 

[rulefan]

Asked our pro today who said I did the right thing by playing the "provisional" ball, something to do with deeming the other lost by playing it, didn't really get what he meant and just confused me more 

Your provisional ball becomes the ball in play and the original is deemed lost if you make a stroke at it from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place.

If you had not realised the original was in a water hazard and played the provisional again (as above) before you knew the ball was in a WH, then the provisional became the ball in play and the original was deemed lost

 

[Beezerk]

Sorry, it was a wrong ball not a wrongly substituted ball.

Your original was the ball in play. Your provisional was now just a stray ball. When you played that stray ball from the fairway you played a wrong ball. That is a penalty of two strokes. You now have to correct the situation before you make a stroke on the next tee. If you don't, you are DQd.

The preceding assumes stroke play. I match play, you simply lose the hole.

Rule 15-3

I'll address the pro's ruling in another post.

OK so like I thought, once I realised my ball was in the hazard I should have ignored the provisional?
Ironic the pro was saying most people don't know water hazard rules lol.

 

[cliveb]

OK so like I thought, once I realised my ball was in the hazard I should have ignored the provisional?
Ironic the pro was saying most people don't know water hazard rules lol.

It's not clear to me whether you actually found your original ball in the water hazard, or whether you're just assuming that's where it must have ended up.

 

[duncan mackie]

It's not clear to me whether you actually found your original ball in the water hazard, or whether you're just assuming that's where it must have ended up.

"...it became apparent..."

The responses are all based on this constituting virtual certainty, if not knowledge. Not the same as assumption, and there's no suggestion that they didn't know where the ball went (let alone ended up).

 

[Beezerk]

It's not clear to me whether you actually found your original ball in the water hazard, or whether you're just assuming that's where it must have ended up.

We saw where it went but the ground in the hazard was very soft so it must have plugged, like I mentioned earlier, we didn't even realise it was a water hazard until we were almost there.

 

[cliveb]

We saw where it went but the ground in the hazard was very soft so it must have plugged, like I mentioned earlier, we didn't even realise it was a water hazard until we were almost there.

OK, understood. So although you didn't find the ball, there was nowhere it could possibly have ended up that wasn't in the hazard. Presumably all the tall grass you referred to in your first post was inside the hazard?

 

[Beezerk]

OK, understood. So although you didn't find the ball, there was nowhere it could possibly have ended up that wasn't in the hazard. Presumably all the tall grass you referred to in your first post was inside the hazard?

Yes mate spot on. I then mistakenly played the provisional I'd hit rather than taking a penalty drop from the hazard. Lesson learned as it potentially cost me the win as I'd have been taking my 3rd onto the green with plenty of shots left to get a point.