Virtuocity - stack and tilt swing.................

[JustOne]

I looked at your iron swing from the front......




Swing centers.....

Ok, mate, when we set up to the ball we have 2 swing centers, one is at the top of our chest (just below our top button) and the other is appox our belt buckle.

So here's a sequence... I'll try to explain it.... [click the pic to enlarge]



If we set up to a ball in the middle of our stance both our swing centers would be directly aligned above the ball (A)

In stack and tilt we move BOTH the swing centers forward TOGETHER (B) so they are still vertical but just slightly in front of the ball... 2 inches would be more than enough. This puts a little more weight onto the left side but you are still upright... your left hip AND chest are just slightly bumped to the left, we don't LEAN, and because we have moved our swing centers forward our hands would also now be 2 inches in front of the ball (the ball hasn't moved but we have!) so we would have a little bit of forward shaft lean visible (towards the target).

You do (C) ....you have bumped your left hip but you have also started to lean your upper body towards the target...(your upper swing center is too far left) this puts your weight too far left and makes your shoulders point to the left of target (open shoulders). So at address you look like you are leaning towards the target. As per the pic your head also starts to get ahead of your hips and very much in front of the ball.

With me so far?

 

[bobmac]

Does anyone remember David Icke?

 

[DelB]

Couldn't this have been done by PM?

 

[JustOne]

Does anyone remember David Icke?

I bet he kept butting into threads on S&T too? :ears:

 

[JustOne]

Couldn't this have been done by PM?

No. Why should it?

He asked me and I'm helping. If I do stuff by PM I have to delete it as my inbox fills up... so I post here so that there will be a permanent record..... for both of us.....


IS THAT OK WITH YOU?????

 

[virtuocity]

Got it so far!

Thanks for this. I can only imagine how horrible it is to take up one whole thread on the forum to discuss one member's S&T journey. But now you have taken 30 seconds to read the initial post and double that time to reply to it, I am safe in the knowledge that you won't subject yourself to this thread again.

 

[virtuocity]

2 inches would be more than enough.

That's what SHE said.

 

[rosecott]

Does anyone remember David Icke?

You may not remember, Bob, but I did my best.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?35008-Stack-and-tilt-resistance-movement

 

[bobmac]

I bet he kept butting into threads on S&T too? :ears:

No, but his favourite quote is
"Exposing the dreamworld we believe to be real":whoo:

Before you start James, I thought the weight started 60-40 on the front foot so your centres would be in front of the ball, or has that changed?

 

[JustOne]

Before you start James, I thought the weight started 60-40 on the front foot so your centres would be in front of the ball, or has that changed?

You mean like I said here... ????

In stack and tilt we move BOTH the swing centers forward TOGETHER (B) so they are still vertical but just slightly in front of the ball... 2 inches would be more than enough. This puts a little more weight onto the left side but you are still upright

 

[bobmac]

You mean like I said here... ????

No
You said

If we set up to a ball in the middle of our stance both our swing centers would be directly aligned above the ball (A)

Now, I thought the weight started in front of the ball at address 60/40 on your front foot.
PS sorry, I forgot, it's just the lower of the 2 upper centres that should be forward

 

[JustOne]

Ok, back to Virtuocity.....


So we've established your upper center is leaned too far ahead of the ball at address... so on to the downswing...




In the stack and tilt downswing and in to impact we go from position (B), that we showed was the correct one, to position (D) where the hips (lower center) move towards the target whilst the upper center stays where it was at address... [click the pic to enlarge it]

You are not going from (B) to (D), you are going from (C) to (E) where you don't bump your hips (lower center) towards the target but your upper center moves even more forward instead of staying more back.

...and that leaves you looking like this.....



The head has gone waaay to far ahead of the ball and your shoulders are very open to the target (you're going to cut across the ball and slice it).... you have a spine tilt towards the target which will make you swing downwards very steeply downwards very steeply (deep divots and skying your fairways and woods off a teepeg)

So you need to consider trying to keep your head back a little more at set up (try and stack your centers on top of each other like picture B) and let the hips go more forward in the downswing (picture D) so your head doesn't get ahead of them.

When your head is that far forward you can't straighten your left leg as your spine is tilted forward and your leg is taking the entire weight of your hips, torso and head... whilst trying to hit a ball, not easy. your instructor was on the right page... but the wrong idea.. it's not about opening your hips quicker it's about keeping the upper center back more, allowing the hips to slide towards target and EXTEND (straighten).

Remember the name of the game with the standard S&T swing is to hit a draw... so the club MUST approach the ball from the inside, we can deal with that but you need to try and sort out your centers first as your head is just going low and left and that's an OTT (over the top) move :thup:.

As you sort out your centers it should help you to swing from the inside (the hips bumping towards target help drop the club to the inside), you should NEVER be hitting an iron and thinking "I'm going to fade this one"...... well not until you've learned the draw!!! So a draw for everything to start with, OK?


:thup:

 

[JustOne]

No
You said


Now, I thought the weight started in front of the ball at address 60/40 on your front foot.
PS sorry, I forgot, it's just the lower of the 2 upper centres that should be forward

Eh? Did you read my post? It says IF we set up to a ball in the middle.... it then goes on to describe what we'll do in the S&T address with the swing centers. Is it really that confusing Bob? I thought it was the S&T part that was confusing for you... not the READING part

 

[bobmac]

Eh? Did you read my post? It says IF we set up to a ball in the middle.... it then goes on to describe what we'll do in the S&T address with the swing centers. Is it really that confusing Bob? I thought it was the S&T part that was confusing for you... not the READING part

Right, I thought you meant fig A was the address position and B was you moving forward during the backswing.

 

[JustOne]

Right, I thought you meant fig A was the address position and B was you moving forward during the backswing.

Can you post me some of those yummy mint choc brownies that you made?

 

[virtuocity]

Brilliant stuff James. I will work on these things and report back.

Yoodaman.

 

[CMAC]

having read this and realising virtuocity is very very new to golf, isnt there a danger here of analyses paralyses

 

[chrisd]

I'm totally confused now cos I've tried these swing positions and one of my hips has come unscrewed!!

 

[bobmac]

I'm totally confused now cos I've tried these swing positions and one of my hips has come unscrewed!!

You've obviously got your centres wrong.
The upper centre stays above the ball, the lower upper centre is the one that moves forward of centre and the lower centre also stays level with the ball and overall central.
Any questions?

 

[SocketRocket]

You've obviously got your centres wrong.
The upper centre stays above the ball, the lower upper centre is the one that moves forward of centre and the lower centre also stays level with the ball and overall central.
Any questions?

Yes. Does David Ike think James is one of the Lizard people?