View from the dark side

[Slaighty]

I joined a decent club this year cos I love all the etiquette and decent behaviour that goes with it. - Fed up with (admitedly minority of folk) of idiots at munis / pay & plays. So my mate invites me along to his Societys game last weekend. At a posh club. The antics made me cringe. Shouting on the 1st tee, (got told to be quiet by a member), shouting when spotting games on adjacent fairways, unreal bad / slow play (5+ hour rounds) which resulted in a collosal tailback of members behind our games. Is the only reason courses let Societys play is money?

 

[Nico]

Yes.

 

[haplesshacker]

Probably.

Got to admit that societies do generally hack me off. Even the couple that I do, there are people that just embarass the hell out of me with their behaviour. Given the choice I wouldn't invite them, but it's not my shout.

Okay, not knowing the rules is forgivable, but as for tearing up the course in buggies, and all the damn shouting, "how you gettin on mate, I only twated the ball into the lake 3 times on the last hole" across the fairways to their mate on another hole. AHHHH.

It's just the loutishness of them.

I couldn't even get a bacon butty the other morning because the cooks were trying to get out 18 full english breakfasts and was told that they'd be a half hour wait, and I'm a member.

 

[HTL]

It is rubbish the way members are pushed to the side for societies at some clubs, but it does draw in lots of money and sometimes a new member.

 

[John_Findlay]

We have a group of over 120 beginners who play in a Society do once a year at our club who hack every fairway to bits and don't replace their divots. Is it all about the money they give to the Club? I bloody hope so. The course is a bombsite the day after.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

At Royal Ascot we have until recently been fairly reticent about the number of societies we allow. However we are now advertising in a lot of the freebie magazines and papers (club golf, golfers news etc) that are generally available free at most clubs and driving ranges (at least in this area).

I have noticed a significant increase in the number of societies booking midweek now and although I haven't seen any of them out on the course I can only imagine what damage is being done (we have protected environmental areas on some holes and I bet next years fees that at least one will have gone in looking for a ball despite all the signs).

Quite simply it is about making money. Membership is down and the club needs to make ends meet. I'm hoping they are being select on the type of society they allow (we have Channel 4's society and similar media groups) and don't suddenly allow anyone to book up and play.

Am I being snobbish. Too right. It is a private club and I pay an awful lot each year to be a member. The course is still bedding in (only 5 years old) and there is lots of new planting going on. It doesn't need terrorisng by for want of a better phrase "hackers"

I suppose I should be grateful that they have resisted the need to allow societies at weekends but fear that day will soon come.

 

[DCB]

It's not just the course that they make a mess of. The locker room can look like a bomb site after an outing.

I must admit to having played on some really nice courses in the past whilst a member of a society that had guys who just didn't know how to handle things. Very embarasing at times.

Funniest though was the chap who won an outing on a very handy society handicap, turned out he was a member at my club and his national handicap was two lower than his society handicap. It should have been his society handicap that was two lower than his national!

A well, must go and crack open another can of super larger for old times sake.... who's got the hip flask?

 

[billyg]

Yes.

seconded

 

[Nico]

Society revenue is vital to the overall health of a club,as are the green fees.

Our fees would be a damn sight higher if either they didnt come at all,or come back next year as the cost of aquiring a customer is significantly more than retaining one.

We need a sense of perspective because whilst we should rightly expect minimum standards of dress and behaviour a realisation of where our club stands in the overall marketplace is required.

The "name" clubs will attract the older,more established societies. With the best will in the world clubs like mine or even "Royal Ascot" just do not have the cachet to demand the kind of green fee which would preclude the society we dont want.

Whilst I agree we should not accept bad behaviour,the least we should do is understand the economic reality of denying access to our courses of societies who bring in vital revenue.

 

[viscount17]

the society I play with is highly disciplined, no buggies, no booze on course and absolutely no shouting.

unfortunately I have seen and followed the other side of societies at my home course. we get a lot here and tbh most are fine, if a little slow. but the others, buggies become beer ferries - even going round the course with a resupply and I do wish they would leave behind the 'play once a year because it's a day off work, don't have a clue, got some clubs at a carboot and (often) don't have golf shoes' lot.

(that may seem snobbish and yes everyone has to start somewhere but that ain't the way)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm not arguing about the economic necessity just the fundamental issue of having to host them at all. We have lost approximately 50 members this year (mainly from our senior section who have found the new course much tougher going) and so it doesn't take Alan Sugar to work out that there is already a significant shortfall in revenue.

That revenue needs to be accounted for and societies are an easy way of getting large amounts of money into a club. I realise that and as mentioned we have had them before but these have normally been from reputable places such as Channel 4 etc.

It is a private club for which I pay probably over the odds compared to others on here (but given our neighbours it mabe not as bad as it could be) and for that money I do expect to be able to play when I want to and not have the tees reserved for parties of 40 plus taking 2+ hours to get off the 1st.

It is a difficult juggling act balancing the needs of the members with the harsh realities of the balance sheet and I am aware that if the numbers don't add up my fees will increase. Not sure what the answer is but I'm not 100% happy at the direction my club is going. An ongoing issue/thread me thinks

 

[Nico]

We all have the ultimate sanction of taking our business elsewhere.
I cannot definitively say as I am not a member there but the evidence from my friends is that places like The Berkshire,West Hill,Worplesdon,Hankley Common,Walton Heath all have the same issues.It certainly was the same when I was a member at Guildford which is one of the oldest courses in Surrey.
The only place I know that is different is Queenwood and that is a very different place altogether.

The reality remains can we afford the uplift in our subs to replace society revenue,or are there other clubs in our vacinity which would give us a better experience?


The experience where I am is that this revenue is becoming much more difficult to attract and retain as the "name" clubs are losing societies and are replacing them with new customers.

 

[viscount17]

We have lost approximately 50 members this year (mainly from our senior section who have found the new course much tougher going)

Homer, I dread to think what state your seniors were in. Your course is not physically demanding; no hills and not particularly long, what was it, 62-63?. It has the prospects of being a good one though.

 

[USER1999]

My course has societies on Mon, Wed and Friday. They are often societies involved with our own members, so behaviour isn't too bad, but very slow play (5 1/2) is not unusual.

My main gripe with the club is that in my (admittedly biased) opinion, on any given day the 1st tee should be clear of societies by 2.30 / 3 ish so the members can play.

Quite often out tees are closed til 4 (sometimes up to 6), which does really restrict when you can play, especially as the club notice board will say closed til 3.

As a club we don't seem to be very good at getting players onto the course, so they always run late. The excuse being:

Well they turned up late, so we held breakfast back.

Well the morning round was a bit slow, but they still needed lunch.

As a result, societies are a pain. Not even sure we get that much money in, as a full day, breakfast, lunch, dinner and 36 holes is only about £60.

 

[theeaglehunter]

My club is exceptional at putting its members before any other possible event and very rarely are societies allowed on the course, and it certainly doesn't advertise its availability as it is always oversubscribed when the new members intake comes around. In fact I have never even seen or herd of a society at the club although there probably has been just at a time when it is definitely not going to be an inconvenience to the members. Other than club competitions that I can play in anyway the only time the course is completely restricted from members is during a maintenance week and when it hosts the Lagonda trophy and Local Open qualifying. However luckily we have two 18 hole layouts so one is always available.

Also I agree entirely with Homers sentiments regarding societies playing on private courses it would annoy me also if I couldn't play because a load of first timers or once a year men were playing. Luckily in Cambridge there is a course that although it has members and appears to be private is a course that offers to arrange society days etc so it would take most of the traffic away from my course anyway- plus it's cheaper! And also not a bad course I hasten to add.

 

[rgs]

As a society secretary and golf club member i see both sides of the argument. At the weekend no societies are allowed on our course before 12 noon, which allows sufficent time for the members competitions in the morning.

Our society is a tightly run society which has about 50% of his memebers are GUI club members and they are key to helping the new members understand the rules etc.

Some clubs forget the help financially socities provide when the clubs were in there infancy. Our sotiety supported a new local club for the first 5/6 yrs when the course was a nine hole course run from a portocabin without catering facilites or showers. As soon as the course moved to 18 holes and a large clubhouse they suddenly decided that societies would not be welcome on weekends=a short sighted view in my opinion. If they phased the change in it would allowed societies time to adjust and re organise their outings.