Use of 'non-standard' distance markers

[dudley.williams]

During a stroke play competition, one competitor went out onto the course before the others and placed 'twigs' as distance markers on the fairway of a particulary difficult hole. On arriving at the hole in competition, he knew the required distance, hence club, for the second shot. No other competitor was aware of this.

Is this acceptable?

 

[ManinBlack]

Although underhand, not against the rules as distance is a matter of fact. Why doesn't he just buy a rangefinder. Hope the birds took the twigs for their nests, or better still, moved them.

 

[Foxholer]

I would say that unless Conditions of Competitions excluded it, then he has every right to do so. Of course, as loose impediments (provided they were loose) other competitors could quite easily move them.

'Underhand' was the word I was looking for too - as in 'a touch iffy/underhand'!

So much more reliable to make notes about sprinkler heads, trees, bunkers etc.

No Strokesavers available?

 

[atticusfinch]

How did he measure the distance? Was the local rule allowing measuring devices enacted for the tournament?

The rules prohibit use of electronic devices unless the local rule has been enacted. If he used a device to measure the distance for the sticks but the local rule was not in effect it would be a violation of 14-3. It sounds like the local rule was not in effect and he was trying for deniability that he used a device during the tournament. Thoroughly distasteful.

If he had gone out the day before and measured from fixed locations and made notations he would be ok. Putting the sticks out is not the same thing.

 

[Imurg]

Wouldn't the DMD rule only apply during a round and not to measuring things before the round..?

 

[rosecott]

I can see nothing wrong or underhand about his actions - only a bit daft using twigs. If it's perfectly acceptable for pros and their caddies to walk, or play a practice round on, a course and make copious notes about the distance of various landmarks to the green, then how can there be a problem with an amateur doing what he did.

 

[fundy]

what comp was this, is it just me thinking that the guy needs to get out a bit more?

 

[Colin L]

How did he measure the distance? Was the local rule allowing measuring devices enacted for the tournament?

The rules prohibit use of electronic devices unless the local rule has been enacted. If he used a device to measure the distance for the sticks but the local rule was not in effect it would be a violation of 14-3. It sounds like the local rule was not in effect and he was trying for deniability that he used a device during the tournament. Thoroughly distasteful.

If he had gone out the day before and measured from fixed locations and made notations he would be ok. Putting the sticks out is not the same thing.

As imurg suggests, the prohibition on the use of a DMD is only during the stipulated round. See Rule 14-3:

during a stipulated round the player must not use any artificial device or unusual equipment

Did this player use a DMD in his stipulated round? No. I think you will be hard pressed to find a rule to support your contention that he did anything wrong. Odd maybe, but there isn't a rule against being odd.

 

[North Mimms]

what comp was this, is it just me thinking that the guy needs to get out a bit more?

Too true!

 

[atticusfinch]

This is more than odd, the player has marked up the competition course before the round in an effort to aid him in his play. Can and FC mark up the course?

Using the dmd before the round to measure distances and then marking those locations with twigs for use during the round is no different from using the device during the round. It is a subterfuge to avoid the rule. It also strikes me as a form of practice before the round on the competition course in breach of rule 7-1.

At the best the player displays a serious disregard of the first etiquette principle and is contrary to the spirit of the game justifying committee action under rule 33-7. see dec 33-7/7 for an example of such committee action and dec 33-7/8.

 

[palindromicbob]

I can't find anything specific in the rules to have stopped him.

If he didn't strike a ball practice is not a issue.

If he'd didn't use a DMD during the round then that's not an issue.

The first etiquette principle is "consideration should be shown to others on the course at all times". Don't see how he would have breeched that unless his twigs where actually tree trunks or piles that could severely effect someone else's play and I really can't see where he has shown himself to breech the spirit of the game.

Frankly Atticus I think you are clutching at straws (or should that be twigs) to penalise this guy for something that isn't actually a breech of any rules.

Personally I think if he has that much time he would be better served by hand drawing a map of the hole and marking out everything he might need on that instead.

 

[Duckster]

I wouldn't even think it as a breach of the rules, but I just find it a bit sad. To be doing this at amateur level, when there are probably 150 yard markers. I'm also assuming it's on his own course. Just sad. It appears he's in need of a life.

 

[atticusfinch]

Do you find what he did acceptable? Do you think the field in the competition was level? I would resign from the committee if they did not take some action in this case.

 

[atticusfinch]

No one has answered the question whether the local rule allowing dmds in this competition was in place?

 

[Colin L]

This is more than odd, the player has marked up the competition course before the round in an effort to aid him in his play. Can and FC mark up the course?

Using the dmd before the round to measure distances and then marking those locations with twigs for use during the round is no different from using the device during the round. It is a subterfuge to avoid the rule. It also strikes me as a form of practice before the round on the competition course in breach of rule 7-1.

At the best the player displays a serious disregard of the first etiquette principle and is contrary to the spirit of the game justifying committee action under rule 33-7. see dec 33-7/7 for an example of such committee action and dec 33-7/8.

This is a rather fierce reaction, don't you think, Atticus, to a player doing exactly what is open to every player to do. That is, in advance of a competition to make as many measurements he wishes by whatever means he wishes; to note the outcomes in a booklet, the back of a fag packet or whatever; and to take these notes with him for reference during his stipulated round. Player A measures and records the distance from the front corner of a bunker to the middle of the green; Player B sticks a twig in the ground and measures the distance from it to the middle of the green. Each notes his distance and makes use of it during his round. What is the difference?

 

[atticusfinch]

. What is the difference?

Well there is one. If you don't see it I guess we just part friends.

 

[Colin L]

Of course I can see a difference. To be more precise, then, what is the substantial difference that in your view makes one permitted and the other a breach of a rule - in which case what rule?

And in what way does he gain any advantage over other players?

 

[palindromicbob]

Do you find what he did acceptable? Do you think the field in the competition was level? I would resign from the committee if they did not take some action in this case.

No one has answered the question whether the local rule allowing dmds in this competition was in place?

Colin did highlight the important aspect of the DMD rule. Doesn't make a difference if local rule is in place or not. If a course is mapped a GPS can be used, if you have line of sight a laser can be used. It can even be able to read slopes, tell temperatures and recommend a club.

The big BUT is that you can't use them in a competitive round without a local rule and even then the things a DMD can and can't do are very explicit.

BTW the OP hasn't actually stated that a DMD was used this is purely conjecture.

This is no worse than a player going out early on a comp day and pacing the greens taking note of pin positions prior to going out.

Is the playing field level. YES it is. He has taken an option that is not a breech of any rule and is available to everybody if they can be arsed. The method he has chosen to aid his memory of distances is ridiculously stupid but had he used a notepad and landmarks the results would be no different.

To be honest I've always thought you to be a sensible voice coming to the rules, but the way are discussing this situation and the convoluted shoehorning of rules you feel should be applicable is concerning. So much so I'd be concerned if you were on a committee at a club I was a member of.

Edit: looks like Colin pressed reply before I did.

 

[atticusfinch]

I am in the minority so I will shut up, but would note that the prohibition against dmds over the years was constantly assaulted with the same logic: what is the harm if the player can get the same information anyway? But they were banned anyway, and stiil are. There is a reason for that.

I'm putting it to bed.

 

[Colin L]

I thought your objection was to this player sticking twigs in the ground to refer to during his round. If so, it has absolutely nothing to do with DMDs as it doesn't matter what method of measurement he used prior to his round.