Unsure of ruling / Last stakes indicating hazard

[stevelev]

I played today at my home track 'Eccleston Park Golf Club'. On the 15th Hole which is a dog leg left, one of my PP's took driver off the tee his tee shot cleared the pond, landed near the green side of the bridge then kicked down towards the ditch.

The ditch has yellow stakes defining its boundaries. In the pictures below you can see the bridge, also the ditch / hazard. The question arose that the final pair of yellow stakes where partway down the ditch as indicated on the pictures attached.

PP's ball has rolled into ditch which was within an area of rough grass (not fairway before I get asked) about 7 inches away from a drain that runs into the ditch. This did not impede a stance or swing.



PP asked whether his ball:
a) Lied in the hazard as the final pair of stakes where before his ball.
b) What relief he was entitled to
c) Without a local rule in place is standing water in the rough to be played from as it lies

Thanks for help on this.

 

[rulefan]

Even though the WH was not properly marked, it seems to satisfy the Definition. Therefore it should be treated as a WH.

 

[stevelev]

Even though the WH was not properly marked, it seems to satisfy the Definition. Therefore it should be treated as a WH.

Does that count even though every other hazard on the course is correctly defined, and on the hazard in question, there have never been any stakes other than those in place.

My take on it, was that the ball was in the hazard, even though not defined. If his argument was that the hazard finished at the stakes I said the water in the ditch is not casual as it in in the rough and without a local rule in place it is either play as it lies or take an unplayable. So either way it was a shot added on whether penalty drop or unplayable.

 

[Foxholer]

And while Rulefan's reply may cover a and b and, probably c for this particular incident...Standing water in the rough (that is not within a WH) is an abnormal ground condition (agc), so free relief. If the WH has overflowed into the rough, then a ball in the water outside the marked WH is in and agc, not the WH. Decision 25/2 refers.

Does that count even though every other hazard on the course is correctly defined, and on the hazard in question, there have never been any stakes other than those in place.

Yes! If it satisfies the criteria for being a hazard, then it's a hazard!

Worth pointing it out to the club though, so they can define it better!

My take on it, was that the ball was in the hazard, even though not defined. If his argument was that the hazard finished at the stakes I said the water in the ditch is not casual as it in in the rough and without a local rule in place it is either play as it lies or take an unplayable. So either way it was a shot added on whether penalty drop or unplayable.

You were correct about it being in the hazard. So there is no argument about it not being a hazard - even though your reasoning is rather flawed! Casual water is casual wate wherever it is!

 

[stevelev]

And while Rulefan's reply may cover a and b and, probably c for this particular incident...Standing water in the rough (that is not within a WH) is an abnormal ground condition (agc), so free relief. If the WH has overflowed into the rough, then a ball in the water outside the marked WH is in and agc, not the WH. Decision 25/2 refers.

FH Cheers for the AGC advice, never knew that there was free relief from casual / standing water away from the fairway. Everydays a schoolday

 

[rulefan]

Stecelev

Ignoring the stakes for the moment, in what way would it not satisfy the definition of a Water Hazard?

 

[stevelev]

Stecelev

Ignoring the stakes for the moment, in what way would it not satisfy the definition of a Water Hazard?

IT doesn't in the 'definition of a water hazard the body of water falls into that description. Just trying to get clarity as the question was very good and it will help several people at the club who may choose to use it as a bail out option if the is unsurety

 

[Colin L]

IT doesn't in the 'definition of a water hazard the body of water falls into that description. Just trying to get clarity as the question was very good and it will help several people at the club who may choose to use it as a bail out option if the is unsurety

Better still, ask your club management to mark the hazard properly and avoid all debate.

 

[stevelev]

Better still, ask your club management to mark the hazard properly and avoid all debate.

That is what we requested yesterday before leaving the course. To as you have said avoid debate. Still a good learn for me, and the other PP's, most of all the comp committee.