Unplayable lie - Lost Ball?

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Val

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My lad was playing a bounce game the other night, hit a ball into rough just 20 or so yards from the tee. Although everyone could see the ball he elected to leave it and re-load without declaring a provisional to ensure his next ball was the ball in play.

I'm 99.9 certain he did no wrong but many experienced players insisted he should have played the original, even our pro said he probably should have. The talk surrounding the declaring a ball lost not being allowed because everyone could see the ball and the taking of an unplayable lie has to be with the original ball.

Could a rules guru clear this ruling up please.
 

Slab

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Obviously I'm not one of the resident gurus & as you say you know this one already

Now’t wrong in taking a stroke and distance penalty anywhere on the course for an unplayable (& only your lad is the judge of what’s unplayable)

Rule 28 & 27 apply

Rule 28 Extract:
The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or....


I can only imagine some folk confusing a 'lost ball' & an 'unplayable ball' when they disagreed
 

FairwayDodger

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Declaring the ball lost is a red herring, there's no such option and clearly it wasn't lost.

However he can declare it unplayable at any time and replay, under penalty, from where he played the previous shot. The decision as to whether a ball is playable or not is his and his alone.

So it sounds like he didn't do anything wrong, just maybe not for the reason he thought.
 

Colin L

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I had to put a player right on this in a tournament last week. He objected when his FC duffed his tee shot into a ditch in front of him and elected to play another ball from the tee.

You have the right at any time to put another ball into play from where you played your previous stroke - stroke and distance. [Rule 27-1a] That's what Val's son legitimately did and that's really the end of the story. You don't have to give any reason for doing so: you can just do it.

In Rules 28 (Ball Unplayable) and 26 (Water Hazards), stroke and distance is mentioned as one of the relief options but that's really just a reminder. It would be an option even if nothing was specifically said in those rules.
 
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Crow

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Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable) states: "When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball."
 

chrisd

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I had to put a player right on this in a tournament last week. He objected when his FC duffed his tee shot into a ditch in front of him and elected to play another ball from the tee.
I pulled a tee shot into heavy bundu short left on Sunday and just reloaded, my playing partner queried why I didn't play a provisional - simple, it could have taken 3 shots to get back to the fairway, there was no stroke and distance option and certainly unlikely to be a good drop option.

It was si 3 and I bogied from the 3 off the tee!
 
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Val

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Thanks for confirming my thoughts. I think their biggest confusion is playing a second ball when everyone could see the original. I told him he did no wrong and toremember the rule for future reference
 

jim8flog

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As a clear example- Your ball could be on the green one inch from the hole and you have the right to declare the ball unplayable.
 
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As a clear example- Your ball could be on the green one inch from the hole and you have the right to declare the ball unplayable.
I rather enjoy occasionally taking stroke and distance on our 5th hole when playing a casual knock or few holes with a newbie or high handicapper looking for guidance. After putting off the front of the raised green from above the hole, and my ball ending up 30yds from the green, in the middle of the fairway; perfect lie - but with the devils own of a pitch back up and onto the green. A playing companion will say words such as 'always a tricky one that - leaves you a mare of a pitch back up - could end back at your feet'. As I walk to the ball. Stop - look - and declare - I'll take S&D. Pick my ball up and place it back on the green from whence I had putted. Looks of consternation and confusion abound. I explain the rule - and as further example tell how we can do the same if we putt or chip off or over the 7th green into the greenside bunker - easy done if the flag is that side. And if you do you are always left with a mare of a bunker shot - right under a steep face.
 

mikejohnchapman

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I pulled a tee shot into heavy bundu short left on Sunday and just reloaded, my playing partner queried why I didn't play a provisional - simple, it could have taken 3 shots to get back to the fairway, there was no stroke and distance option and certainly unlikely to be a good drop option.

It was si 3 and I bogied from the 3 off the tee!
So just to be clear between lost and unplayable off the tee.

If you hit a shot and think it is lost you can re tee a ball and play 3 from the tee.

If you hit the ball into the rough and you can still see it, you can declare it unplayable and return to the tee to drop the ball as near as possible to the place you played it from. ie you can't tee it up again. If you can see a ball after your tee shot you are obliged to identify it before proceeding.

Correct?
 

Colin L

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So just to be clear between lost and unplayable off the tee.

If you hit a shot and think it is lost you can re tee a ball and play 3 from the tee.

If you hit the ball into the rough and you can still see it, you can declare it unplayable and return to the tee to drop the ball as near as possible to the place you played it from. ie you can't tee it up again. If you can see a ball after your tee shot you are obliged to identify it before proceeding.

Correct?
You can put another ball into play from where you played your previous stroke at any time. Your ball might be visible, it might not be visible. You don't have to deem it unplayable; you don't have to think it is lost. You don't have to identify it before proceeding. You can just do it. Hit a ball into the boondocks, pause for a mild sweary word and, depending where you are, immediately drop, place or tee up another ball and play it.

If you put a ball into play from the tee and decide to play another under stroke and distance, you can tee it up anywhere on the teeing ground.
 
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You can put another ball into play from where you played your previous stroke at any time. Your ball might be visible, it might not be visible. You don't have to deem it unplayable; you don't have to think it is lost. You don't have to identify it before proceeding. You can just do it. Hit a ball into the boondocks, pause for a mild sweary word and, depending where you are, immediately drop, place or tee up another ball and play it.

If you put a ball into play from the tee and decide to play another under stroke and distance, you can tee it up anywhere on the teeing ground.
Indeed - why I do my little S&D thing on our 5th as described. I find it a good way of explaining the S&D option that is always available.

My ball, say, 4 ft from hole with fast downhill putt. But - damn - too much - off the front of the green - way down the slope and stops 30yds away. Middle of the fairway. Perfect lie. I decide I don't fancy the shot back up to the green, so say I'm taking S&D, pick up my ball and place it back on the green 4ft from the hole. I now know the speed and line of the putt a lot better :)
 

duncan mackie

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I think the confusion around this issue generally is when people bring unplayable into the discussion (not in the context of responding to the question but more general discussion.

As Colin referenced earlier 27-1 a is all you need

"At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance."
And 20-5 tells you
"When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows:

(a)
On the Teeing Ground: The ball to be played must be played from within the teeing ground. It may be played from anywhere within the teeing ground and may be teed.

(b)
Through the Green: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

(c)
In a Hazard: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the course in the hazard.

(d
On the Putting Green: The ball to be played must be placed on the putting green."
 
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As others have said, all was fine for the OPs lad.

The dilemma often encountered arises, l fear, from the fact there are numerous situations where you either must, or you may elect to, play a ball from where the ball was last played. And often people either confuse the various scenarios or merely forget the simple ones. Rule 27/1 is the simple one most often forgotten.
 
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