Transgender Swimmer - should she be allowed to compete

Should she be allowed to compete


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RichA

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I don't think that those affected in any walk of life other than sport see it as a lifestyle choice, like diet, or as an opportunity to make it big.
Purely in a sporting context, taking gender and sexual identity out of the equation, it makes me think of the period when Jack Charlton helped about 20 English footballers who couldn't make their national team realise that they were actually Irish.
 
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I don't think that those affected in any walk of life other than sport see it as a lifestyle choice, like diet, or as an opportunity to make it big.
Purely in a sporting context, taking gender and sexual identity out of the equation, it makes me think of the period when Jack Charlton helped about 20 English footballers who couldn't make their national team realise that they were actually Irish.
100% agree, I cant believe anyone looks at their sporting status and decides the best way to improve is to change gender.

I assume this is all a side effect of a solution to each persons much bigger struggles
 

Tashyboy

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Simple

Only men have prostates. I now don't have one, I now want to win the ladies club championship at my place, I identify as a female as a result of my body changes 😁😁
Er, that link I posted showed that not only men have prostates. 😳 It goes onto explain the difference between people born with
“ intersex” organs and transgender people, for want of a better wording. People who identify as being the wrong sex as against people who are born both sexes. Obviously there is a massive difference. It really was an eye opening historical read re past,present and future problems.
 
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Er, that link I posted showed that not only men have prostates. 😳 It goes onto explain the difference between people born with
“ intersex” organs and transgender people, for want of a better wording. People who identify as being the wrong sex as against people who are born both sexes. Obviously there is a massive difference. It really was an eye opening historical read re past,present and future problems.
Not to mention the dismal performance of current requirements to compete!
 

Swango1980

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100% agree, I cant believe anyone looks at their sporting status and decides the best way to improve is to change gender.

I assume this is all a side effect of a solution to each persons much bigger struggles
It is an interesting question though.
As far as I can tell, the individuals in these cases were all excellent make athletes, albeit they were not at the level of the top male athletes. They then want to make a major lifestyle choice, but demand they can then still compete at the top of the women's sport.

However, an answer I do not know. How many female athletes, at any level of their game, decide they want to transition as a male and compete in male sport? I do not know the answer, potential thoughts are:

  1. exactly the same number, it just doesn't make the news as there is no fairness issue (although would they be able to compete in the men's game, would the drugs be performance enhancing?)
  2. it doesn't really happen at all, as a female athlete who wishes to be a male knows they'd pretty much be sacrificing their sporting career. So, they either balance things up and decide not to do it, or they do it aware of the sacrifices.
 

Tashyboy

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100% agree, I cant believe anyone looks at their sporting status and decides the best way to improve is to change gender.

I assume this is all a side effect of a solution to each persons much bigger struggles
Unfortunately when early testing was brought out for women in the olympics I think it was. Some athletes stopped competing because they knew they would fail. Suffice to say that was a massive improvement on women being asked to strip naked and show there tackle 😳 to prove they are women 😖
 
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It is an interesting question though.
As far as I can tell, the individuals in these cases were all excellent make athletes, albeit they were not at the level of the top male athletes. They then want to make a major lifestyle choice, but demand they can then still compete at the top of the women's sport.

However, an answer I do not know. How many female athletes, at any level of their game, decide they want to transition as a male and compete in male sport? I do not know the answer, potential thoughts are:

  1. exactly the same number, it just doesn't make the news as there is no fairness issue (although would they be able to compete in the men's game, would the drugs be performance enhancing?)
  2. it doesn't really happen at all, as a female athlete who wishes to be a male knows they'd pretty much be sacrificing their sporting career. So, they either balance things up and decide not to do it, or they do it aware of the sacrifices.
I find it hard to believe its not the same number. In the current climate, if my sporting status was important enough to me, I'd be asking for option 3. Continue to compete in womens sport as they'd easily meet the current criteria!!
 

Swango1980

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I find it hard to believe its not the same number. In the current climate, if my sporting status was important enough to me, I'd be asking for option 3. Continue to compete in womens sport as they'd easily meet the current criteria!!
I don't know enough about the medical procedures. I assumed they would have to take some sort of hormones, which could be considered performance enhancing if going from female to male, yet still wanting to compete with the females. Mind you, even if they did have an Option 3, then should male to female still not have that Option 3, and continue to compete in the male category?
 
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So according to article previously posted.

Female testosterone levels generally between 2 and 4
Male around 23
Requirement for male to female to compete 10

So having gone through male puberty and having more than twice as much testosterone, in some cases its not even tested if you can prove youve taken the pills, which in some cases dont even work... youre free to join the womens wrestling team... what a mess!
 

Blue in Munich

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We have various classes in the Paralympics, why not have two transgender classes for regular sports, transgender female to male & transgender male to female. Those who have transgendered then complete against their peers, as do able bodied & disabled athletes. Where's the problem; the only issue I'm seeing is small fields?
 

road2ruin

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We have various classes in the Paralympics, why not have two transgender classes for regular sports, transgender female to male & transgender male to female. Those who have transgendered then complete against their peers, as do able bodied & disabled athletes. Where's the problem; the only issue I'm seeing is small fields?
I would tend to agree with this, the Paralympic classes are very specific to ensure as level a playing field as possible so I don't see a reason why it couldn't be the same in regular sports. Failing that there should just be two classes, 'Open' and 'Female'.
 

Lord Tyrion

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Have there been any women who have wanted to change gender to compete against men?
It is entirely possible but at elite level they simply would not register as competitive so it does not become a story. We are only hearing about these stories because the people changing have the potential to compete way above their previous level and are distorting the competitions they are in.
 

bobmac

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It is entirely possible but at elite level they simply would not register as competitive so it does not become a story. We are only hearing about these stories because the people changing have the potential to compete way above their previous level and are distorting the competitions they are in.
So the women wouldn't stand a chance against the men/man
 

ColchesterFC

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So the women wouldn't stand a chance against the men/man
It would depend on the sport. Almost certainly not if it was boxing, cycling, swimming or other more physical activities. Absolutely no reason why not in sports such as snooker, darts, chess etc.
 

Tashyboy

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So according to article previously posted.

Female testosterone levels generally between 2 and 4
Male around 23
Requirement for male to female to compete 10

So having gone through male puberty and having more than twice as much testosterone, in some cases its not even tested if you can prove youve taken the pills, which in some cases dont even work... youre free to join the womens wrestling team... what a mess!
I think also one thing that made me smile. You cannot use banned drugs to compete. But you can use drugs to compete from male to female 😳🤔😖
It’s a minefield
 

louise_a

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The idea of having a competitions for trans competitors is really laughable, there are only a handful in each sport. That said I don't know the answer is, I am just glad that I play golf where any perceived physical advantage is by far outweighed by the skill aspect.
 

Blue in Munich

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The idea of having a competitions for trans competitors is really laughable, there are only a handful in each sport. That said I don't know the answer is, I am just glad that I play golf where any perceived physical advantage is by far outweighed by the skill aspect.
More or less laughable than the alternative of watching transitioned female athletes beating birth female athletes? Yes, it would be a small field but at least they would be competing against their peers and any win would be properly acknowledged; as it stands any victory that a transitioned female athlete achieves is tainted for me, and I suspect the vast majority.

This is the opinion of someone with first hand experience of the subject;

Among those standing by Navratilova: her former tennis coach, who's also a world-renowned eye doctor, still practicing in her mid-80s. This doctor drew on her understanding of the science, citing medical journals. As she reaffirms months later in a deep, authoritative voice: "It is just biology. Men have 10 times the amount of testosterone that normal women have. [The peer-reviewed journal Clinical Chemistry has that number at seven or eight times.] Now you want to get rid of that testosterone? O.K., but then it is going to take a couple of years for that to equilibrate. And men still have a larger frame with a larger cardiac output, a larger lung capacity."

https://www.si.com/tennis/2019/06/2...ntity-politics-transgender-where-are-they-now
 
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