Transgender Swimmer - should she be allowed to compete

Should she be allowed to compete

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#121
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sunshine

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This is a good debate with some excellent contributions.

Firstly, the notion that a man would seek to transition to female to win competitions feels absurd. Transitioning is a long, arduous process that has massive implications in life. Transgender people suffer huge levels of discrimination and have a very high suicide rate. It's not something to be done on a whim - the bits that are chopped off do not grow back.

Secondly, female sport is not being swamped by transgender athletes. The Lia Thomas situation is highly unusual, but of course newsworthy. It's not clear how far she has transitioned, but I don't think she would yet meet the established IOC criteria to participate in elite sport: IOC approves consensus with regard to athletes who have changed sex - Olympic News (olympics.com) (note this is being superceded).

Thirdly, FINA and other governing bodies generally have had clear policies over the last decade or so, but these are being increasingly challenged.
New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils | Sport politics | The Guardian
 
#122
Papas1982

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Can't believe this is even a discussion.

Live your life in general society however you wish. But the best women in the world will get robbed.

How the hell can Caster Semenya be questioned if this is allowed.

It's farcical. How anyone can genuinely claim that is fully post transition there isn't some residual advantage is ridiculous. For the average Joe/Jane maybe, but for an athlete that still trains. Absolute BS!
 
#124
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sweaty sock

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Lilyhawk said:
This is sheer stupidity, to bend over backwards and find "solutions" to everything in the name of "inclusion". Pandora's box sure has been opened up nice and wide due to these few pre-men who now are women. Assuming the journalist is based at the Huffington Post or the Guardian, have never set foot on any sort of sports field, let alone tried to put together a team week in and week out. And now some people think that even more classifications is gonna make things better? F me.
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Its not the only instance in sport though is it, the same problem exists in special olympics with athletes category allocation 'issues'. We just happen to turn a bling eye to one and are up in arms about another. I'd love to know the solution.
 
#126
Pathetic Shark

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I was on American sports radio talking about this - my own view was that people born men compete in men's events and people born women compete in women's events. If people want to transition that is up to them but they cannot compete in the alternative sex sport.
Not sure if that is right or wrong and I know the woke police would go mental over that view but that is how I see it.
 
#127
road2ruin

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This may have been previously covered, apologies if so, however you have a very average men's swimmer who was ranked around 500 odd. They transition over to women's and they're now amongst the best. It's clear from those numbers alone that she has an advantage.

There should be two categories IMO, Open and Female. Female is for those born a female, the Open category is open to anyone else regardless of sex/gender.
 
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#129
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Tashyboy

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Ethan said:
This has become a culture war virtue signal for ambitious and cynical [people who can't be discussed here].
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?Totally understand the transgender dilemma in a person. But my thoughts are with competitors who are then at a disadvantage.
 
#130
Fade and Die

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Tashyboy said:
?Totally understand the transgender dilemma in a person. But my thoughts are with competitors who are then at a disadvantage.
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Lord Coe is hardly a Transphobe but his view "I think that the integrity of women's sport if we don't get this right, and actually the future of women's sport, is very fragile," Is spot on, also Hungarian Swimmer Reka Gyorgy who missed out because of the inclusion of Lia Thomas said "Thomas is doing what she is passionate about and deserves that right" but said she "would like to critique the NCAA rules that allow her to compete against us". Which is really magnanimous but shows how woman athletes feel about having to race against trans athletes.

I agree with Sharon Davies it is a "Disgraceful abandonment of women's right to equal opportunities in sport"... Mind you when two senior Female MPs cannot even define the word "Female" maybe the writing is on the wall for real female athletes. :(
 
#131
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Tashyboy

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Fade and Die said:
Lord Coe is hardly a Transphobe but his view "I think that the integrity of women's sport if we don't get this right, and actually the future of women's sport, is very fragile," Is spot on, also Hungarian Swimmer Reka Gyorgy who missed out because of the inclusion of Lia Thomas said "Thomas is doing what she is passionate about and deserves that right" but said she "would like to critique the NCAA rules that allow her to compete against us". Which is really magnanimous but shows how woman athletes feel about having to race against trans athletes.

I agree with Sharon Davies it is a "Disgraceful abandonment of women's right to equal opportunities in sport"... Mind you when two senior Female MPs cannot even define the word "Female" maybe the writing is on the wall for real female athletes. :(
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When I look at how disabled athletics and swimming is put into different categories “ to make it fair” that people are competing against one another with an equal chance of winning. I can see how this will go in the future re transgender. At the end of the day they are athlete and deserve to compete on an equal footing. As do the people they are competing against.
 
#132
Foxholer

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road2ruin said:
This may have been previously covered, apologies if so, however you have a very average men's swimming who was ranked around 500 odd. They transition over to women's and they're now amongst the best. It's clear from those numbers alone that she has an advantage.

There should be two categories IMO, Open and Female. Female is for those born a female, the Open category is open to anyone else regardless of sex/gender.
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This seems , to me, is the only way to resolve a 'binary' situation.
 
#133
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Tashyboy

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Fade and Die said:
Lord Coe is hardly a Transphobe but his view "I think that the integrity of women's sport if we don't get this right, and actually the future of women's sport, is very fragile," Is spot on, also Hungarian Swimmer Reka Gyorgy who missed out because of the inclusion of Lia Thomas said "Thomas is doing what she is passionate about and deserves that right" but said she "would like to critique the NCAA rules that allow her to compete against us". Which is really magnanimous but shows how woman athletes feel about having to race against trans athletes.

I agree with Sharon Davies it is a "Disgraceful abandonment of women's right to equal opportunities in sport"... Mind you when two senior Female MPs cannot even define the word "Female" maybe the writing is on the wall for real female athletes. :(
Click to expand...
When I look at how disabled athletics and swimming is put into different categories “ to make it fair” that people are competing against one another with an equal chance of winning. I can see how this will go in the future re transgender. At the end of the day they are athlete and deserve to compete on an equal footing. As do the people they are competing against.
 
#135
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Springveldt

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Another no from me. The simple fact that she has went through puberty (while training no doubt, you don't get to be a college swimmer by accident) is a major advantage. It's not an equal playing field for those born female.

On a side note, I used to weight train through my 20's and then stopped when the kids came along. When I starting training again 10 years or so later I hadn't really lost that much strength and I was much stronger than work colleagues who had never really trained. It takes years for male strength to disappear. I'd imagine taking suppressants will speed it up but I'd bet she will still have a major advantage in strength even a few years from now.
 
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