Transgender Swimmer - should she be allowed to compete

Should she be allowed to compete


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Orikoru

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Men race against men
Women race against women
Trans race against trans
QED
If you choose to change gender then you should compete in the appropriate trans gender category against similar athletes.
I agree with this as an idea, but I think it will be seen as an imperfect solution simply because there will be a real paucity of competitors for quite a number of years I would have thought. I mean just how many transgender competitive swimmers are out there?
 

bobmac

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I agree with this as an idea, but I think it will be seen as an imperfect solution simply because there will be a real paucity of competitors for quite a number of years I would have thought. I mean just how many transgender competitive swimmers are out there?
More than you may think it seems...

''Thomas' win in the 100-yard freestyle was a school- and meet-record time of 47.63, and marked her third individual title at the Ivy League Championships
Iszac Henig - a transgender man who swims for Yale's women's team - placed second in 47.82, followed by Princeton's Nikki Venema in 48.81
 

GB72

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I agree with this as an idea, but I think it will be seen as an imperfect solution simply because there will be a real paucity of competitors for quite a number of years I would have thought. I mean just how many transgender competitive swimmers are out there?
And then you have the more complex issue of the fact that a transgender athlete sees themselves as female and so to be denied the right to compete in female gender specific events is the discimination.
 

Orikoru

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And then you have the more complex issue of the fact that a transgender athlete sees themselves as female and so to be denied the right to compete in female gender specific events is the discimination.
Yes, that is of course what they'll continue to say. At least until the proper research comes out actually proving that their male genes and body type does give them a clear advantage.
 

GB72

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Yes, that is of course what they'll continue to say. At least until the proper research comes out actually proving that their male genes and body type does give them a clear advantage.
I think what is lacking globally is some legal defintiion in these instances that can be applied but, again, the argument will be to classify anyone by anything other than their chosen gender is discriminatory.
 

Orikoru

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I think what is lacking globally is some legal defintiion in these instances that can be applied but, again, the argument will be to classify anyone by anything other than their chosen gender is discriminatory.
Yes. Their first attempt was obviously the legislation over amount of testosterone in the body, but I don't think it goes far enough. As we've mentioned, just the size and muscle mass are surely factors too.
 

Swango1980

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I agree with this as an idea, but I think it will be seen as an imperfect solution simply because there will be a real paucity of competitors for quite a number of years I would have thought. I mean just how many transgender competitive swimmers are out there?
If in doubt, and they simply wanted to be able to compete, could they be allowed to compete with "biological" males?

I very much doubt a person transitions to become a male to female for sporting reasons (if they did, then surely that would just be cheating by finding a loophole?). I've no problem if a person wants to make this call, but surely they need to weigh up the consequences of doing such a thing. They may get their desire of becoming a female physically, but should that give them a right to also compete at an elite level of sport?

A trans athlete will already have had the "benefits" of going through male puberty, in terms of physical stature, as others have pointed out. Many of them cannot be undone, such as height and other physical attributes. I understand that one of the arguments FOR a trans person competing is that their hormone levels are kept below acceptable standards by drugs? If so, what are those acceptable standards and how are they set? Also, if a trans athlete is taking performance reducing drugs to get to the specified level, would they get disqualified for NOT taking drugs, or enough drugs? If a biological female was well below the specified hormone levels, could they argue they should be allowed to take performance enhancing drugs to elevate their hormones to the same level as the trans athlete?
 

GreiginFife

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It seems in these modern times that the more we (society) talks about not labelling, the more labels we seem to find or be told to use.

I'm not sure level playing fields actually exist, some people are naturally bigger or smaller than other so naturally become more apt for a certain task. I'm sure I'd be at a disadvantage in basketball against a team of 7 footers. I can't make "learn" or "train" myself to be 7ft.

I say, remove all labels, categories, genders, groups and other stratifications from sports and just have one big free for all. Fairest way really... :unsure::whistle:
 

drdel

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A 'transgender' sports classification would still give an advantage to the 'male to female' competitors.

Unfortunately there are people who will make the change for ulterior motives and that clouds the issue.

IMO competing on a level basis is what sport is about and since 'sport' is primarily about physical strength and skill it is impossible to level it with transgender transitioning and the legally suspect chemical controlling of hormones.
 

Pants

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If you are physically born male, the you compete against other males - no matter what you chose to do with parts of your body.
Females ditto.

Simples ;)
 

fundy

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It seems in these modern times that the more we (society) talks about not labelling, the more labels we seem to find or be told to use.

I'm not sure level playing fields actually exist, some people are naturally bigger or smaller than other so naturally become more apt for a certain task. I'm sure I'd be at a disadvantage in basketball against a team of 7 footers. I can't make "learn" or "train" myself to be 7ft.

I say, remove all labels, categories, genders, groups and other stratifications from sports and just have one big free for all. Fairest way really... :unsure::whistle:

better get rid of golf handicaps whilst youre at it ;)
 

Fade and Die

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20 votes cast, all in agreement :eek:
Must be a first
Up to 36 now, maybe because there is not really a legitimate counter argument? After all It cannot be fair for real women to have to compete against someone who might only be “identifying” as a woman. Trans woman are just not real woman.
 

RichA

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I'm not voting yes or no. It's too complex for a binary answer without narrative.
I don't see why it couldn't be resolved without being contentious.
In addition to gender separation, boxing and other combat sports have divisions that prevent a 19 stone man fighting a 9 stone man.
Why can't additional divisions be created in any sport to allow trans sportspeople to compete on a level playing field?
 

Blue in Munich

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Up to 36 now, maybe because there is not really a legitimate counter argument? After all It cannot be fair for real women to have to compete against someone who might only be “identifying” as a woman. Trans woman are just not real woman.
In fairness that doesn't stop a few on here ;)
 

Foxholer

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It seems in these modern times that the more we (society) talks about not labelling, the more labels we seem to find or be told to use.

I'm not sure level playing fields actually exist, some people are naturally bigger or smaller than other so naturally become more apt for a certain task. I'm sure I'd be at a disadvantage in basketball against a team of 7 footers. I can't make "learn" or "train" myself to be 7ft.

I say, remove all labels, categories, genders, groups and other stratifications from sports and just have one big free for all. Fairest way really... :unsure::whistle:
Plenty of sports have weight categories that work, while for others it's completely irrelevant.

As for the actual question in the OP/Title. I agree with Hogshead-Makar on the 1st article of the OP. Going through male-puberty provides such a benefit that it's not competing on a 'equal opportunity' basis.
 
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