Transgender Swimmer - should she be allowed to compete

[Fade and Die]

That last line is bang out of order. ?
As well as showing total ignorance of the biology involved in being transgender. ?
If you don't understand something, why not try to find out and improve your understanding, rather then making nasty comments?

Is it? I find the whole transgender fad just another form of misogyny (and that really is “bang out of order”) Apart from extremely rare intersex the vast majority of people are born male or female. Being born male and thinking you are a woman is a mental issue. Indulging their delusions only makes it worse for real women who have had to fight for equality (yet still find men knocking them down every chance they get)
Plenty of impressive women in the US right now including the first every Woman VP but no, USA today makes a transgender man one of the “Woman of the year” How insulting is that?
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6600134001

 

[Slime]

Pin-seeker, may we please have your views?

 

[phillarrow]

Is it? I find the whole transgender fad just another form of misogyny (and that really is “bang out of order”) Apart from extremely rare intersex the vast majority of people are born male or female. Being born male and thinking you are a woman is a mental issue. Indulging their delusions only makes it worse for real women who have had to fight for equality (yet still find men knocking them down every chance they get)
Plenty of impressive women in the US right now including the first every Woman VP but no, USA today makes a transgender man one of the “Woman of the year” How insulting is that?
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6600134001

Again, just repeatedly showing your ignorance doesn't make you any less wrong.

I'm guessing it's not actually your fault you don't understand the science behind how people can be born into the wrong body - as opposed to the only other option, which is that you're just choosing to be bigoted? - but you really should try to learn more before you continue to display this ignorance. Using words like "fad", "insulting" just makes you sound a bit thick to be honest.

You might wish to believe it's "a mental thing" but the world's leading geneticists and biologists disagree with you. I wonder which of you knows more? ??

Try starting with reading about the hormone changes that take place in the first trimester of a foetuses life. Or thinking for just one second about why men have nipples? Or the various other things that don't quite go 'to plan' during the development of a foetus, such as conjoined twins. It's really not that hard to understand how it happens that people are born into the wrong sex body.

If you are just ignorant because you don't know these things, fair enough, but go and read about them to make yourself less ignorant.
If, on the other hand, you are willfully ignorant because it suits your prejudices, then do one. This is a thread about whether trans athletes should be able to compete, not about whether they have the right to exist. ?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Guys, can we discuss this as grownups without the personal insults or digs
Please

 

[Jamesbrown]

It could just be because you are a crap driver.

Or, just maybe, the fact you were driving meant most of your focus was on the road ahead of you. Hers wasn't.

Your example provides zero evidence about the potential differences between men and women.

I’ll use your example then.
I was trying to negotiate the usual tight drive through road, so yes most of my focus was on that.
Unfortunately being male the part that connects my left and right hemispheres is small and compartmentalised allowing me to focus on only one thing at once.
My partner was figuring out what she wanted on the app menu at the time but being female the part that connects her left and right hemispheres is larger allowing her to multitask and focus on more things.
Something men can’t cope doing.

There are no “potential differences”. WE are biologically different inside and out.

 

[chrisd]

On our way home earlier and went to a drive through Starbucks I’d never been to. I was driving looking for the order point but the other half said I’d driven past it. I missed it because as a male my perception is narrow from my hunting genes.
My missus spotted it because she has a wider perception and differentiates colours better being a female.

........................... and possibly because she wasn't driving a large lump of car which may require a small amount of attention?

 

[chrisd]

Guys, can we discuss this as grownups without the personal insults or digs
Please

Are you suggesting that I'm grown up ......................??

 

[Fade and Die]

Again, just repeatedly showing your ignorance doesn't make you any less wrong.

I'm guessing it's not actually your fault you don't understand the science behind how people can be born into the wrong body - as opposed to the only other option, which is that you're just choosing to be bigoted? - but you really should try to learn more before you continue to display this ignorance. Using words like "fad", "insulting" just makes you sound a bit thick to be honest.

You might wish to believe it's "a mental thing" but the world's leading geneticists and biologists disagree with you. I wonder which of you knows more? ??

Try starting with reading about the hormone changes that take place in the first trimester of a foetuses life. Or thinking for just one second about why men have nipples? Or the various other things that don't quite go 'to plan' during the development of a foetus, such as conjoined twins. It's really not that hard to understand how it happens that people are born into the wrong sex body.

If you are just ignorant because you don't know these things, fair enough, but go and read about them to make yourself less ignorant.
If, on the other hand, you are willfully ignorant because it suits your prejudices, then do one. This is a thread about whether trans athletes should be able to compete, not about whether they have the right to exist. ?

???

That statement might have worked when you was a tutor at the local poli Phil but not here.

As this poll shows I think my view is seated in reality… trans people have a right to exist but they are not women and have absolutely no right to compete against real women.

 

[bobmac]

Guys, can we discuss this as grownups without the personal insults or digs
Please

I guess not

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Right
I’m going to say this once and once only

This is an emotive subject and people of different ages are likely to have differing views.

I will not tolerate insulting posts, words like sanctimonious, pathetic, etc will only wind people up and will be rewarded with infractions.

Please discuss the ideas and opinions without resorting to personal attacks

Last warning

 

[phillarrow]

???

That statement might have worked when you was a tutor at the local poli Phil but not here.

As this poll shows I think my view is seated in reality… trans people have a right to exist but they are not women and have absolutely no right to compete against real women.

Look at my vote. Or at my posts on this thread. I absolutely don't agree that trans athletes should be able to compete - at least not unless scientific research proves conclusively that it's a level playing field... which I personally doubt will ever happen. What I am arguing with you about is your assertion that being trans is simply a mental health issue. The science is really very simple - as I've already said, just take a second to ask why you have nipples.

Oh, and I've never been a tutor in a poli? Not sure where you've got that from?

 

[Fade and Die]

Right
I’m going to say this once and once only

This is an emotive subject and people of different ages are likely to have differing views.

I will not tolerate insulting posts, words like sanctimonious, pathetic, etc will only wind people up and will be rewarded with infractions.

Please discuss the ideas and opinions without resorting to personal attacks

Last warning

Ok but did you not find post #203 insulting at all?

 

[Fade and Die]

Look at my vote. Or at my posts on this thread. I absolutely don't agree that trans athletes should be able to compete - at least not unless scientific research proves conclusively that it's a level playing field... which I personally doubt will ever happen. What I am arguing with you about is your assertion that being trans is simply a mental health issue. The science is really very simple - as I've already said, just take a second to ask why you have nipples.

Oh, and I've never been a tutor in a poli? Not sure where you've got that from?

I know we were all female before some of us were “made” male and I know that some fall between the cracks, but the “inbetweeners” are massively over represented at the moment to the detriment of real women/girls and it’s just wrong.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Ok but did you not find post #203 insulting at all?

If you are referring to the “ignorant” statements then yes a bit,

But ignorance in itself is not insulting, it means a set of ideas that one was not aware of, so isn’t the same.

Expressing trans issues as a mental illness really isn’t helpful.

 

[Dando]

Right
I’m going to say this once and once only

This is an emotive subject and people of different ages are likely to have differing views.

I will not tolerate insulting posts, words like sanctimonious, pathetic, etc will only wind people up and will be rewarded with infractions.

Please discuss the ideas and opinions without resorting to personal attacks

Last warning

“I’m going to say this once and once only”

Why did I read this how Michelle from allo allo would’ve said it?

 

[phillarrow]

I know we were all female before some of us were “made” male and I know that some fall between the cracks, but the “inbetweeners” are massively over represented at the moment to the detriment of real women/girls and it’s just wrong.

And that's where we will just have to agree to disagree. ?
Given that this change from female embryo to male is entirely down to a single hormone acting on a single chromosome, and that it happens at such a formative time in the development of the embryo - when the embryo is incredibly fragile and miscarriages are all too frequent, I actually think it's a bit odd that it's so rare.

 

[Fade and Die]

If you are referring to the “ignorant” statements then yes a bit,

But ignorance in itself is not insulting, it means a set of ideas that one was not aware of, so isn’t the same.

Expressing trans issues as a mental illness really isn’t helpful.

But Phil, that is my view. I think it is a mental issue. (I haven’t said they should not exist like PhilA intimated was my view) I just think they get too much air time.

Re Phil’s earlier post, I think it was making a show of being morally and intellectually superior to other people. (That’s the definition of sanctimonious btw)

 

[PhilTheFragger]

“I’m going to say this once and once only”

Why did I read this how Michelle from allo allo would’ve said it?

Because you are an old git ??

 

[louise_a]

Is it? I find the whole transgender fad just another form of misogyny (and that really is “bang out of order”) Apart from extremely rare intersex the vast majority of people are born male or female. Being born male and thinking you are a woman is a mental issue. Indulging their delusions only makes it worse for real women who have had to fight for equality (yet still find men knocking them down every chance they get)
Plenty of impressive women in the US right now including the first every Woman VP but no, USA today makes a transgender man one of the “Woman of the year” How insulting is that?
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6600134001

Fad!!! you havent got a Flippin
clue! Do you actually know what it takes to indulge in this FAD? you risk losing everything in your life, you have no idea how people will react, you risk being assaulted and worse, some think suicide is a better option but yeah we just do it for a laugh as its the latest fad!

 

[sunshine]

Ok but did you not find post #203 insulting at all?

Post #203 is just stating facts.