Transgender Swimmer - should she be allowed to compete

[Jamesbrown]

It would depend on the sport. Almost certainly not if it was boxing, cycling, swimming or other more physical activities. Absolutely no reason why not in sports such as snooker, darts, chess etc.

Darts are out. They don’t have the hunter gatherer genes of throwing spears nor the narrower perception for focusing on targets as men do.
“You throw like a girl” still stands. They just don’t throw with the same velocity regardless of how long they’ve done it.
I suspect Snooker with imparting the necessary amount of spin on the ball would be the same.

 

[phillarrow]

Darts are out. They don’t have the hunter gatherer genes of throwing spears nor the narrower perception for focusing on targets as men do.
“You throw like a girl” still stands. They just don’t throw with the same velocity regardless of how long they’ve done it.
I suspect Snooker with imparting the necessary amount of spin on the ball would be the same.

Fallon Sherrock?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Darts are out. They don’t have the hunter gatherer genes of throwing spears nor the narrower perception for focusing on targets as men do.
“You throw like a girl” still stands. They just don’t throw with the same velocity regardless of how long they’ve done it.
I suspect Snooker with imparting the necessary amount of spin on the ball would be the same.

You do realise that they don't get bonus points in darts for how hard they throw it? As long as a woman can throw it hard enough to stick in the board that's all that matters. As Philarrow points out in the post after your's, Fallon Sherrock has proven that she can compete against the men in that sport.

 

[Swango1980]

Darts are out. They don’t have the hunter gatherer genes of throwing spears nor the narrower perception for focusing on targets as men do.
“You throw like a girl” still stands. They just don’t throw with the same velocity regardless of how long they’ve done it.
I suspect Snooker with imparting the necessary amount of spin on the ball would be the same.

I guess eventually someone was bound to throw in a stupid stereotypical comment .

I didn't realise darts had to be thrown at maximum physical effort, or putting spin on a cueball required the same strength as a weightlifting champion. I always thought it was about technique and skill. Silly me.

 

[Jamesbrown]

You do realise that they don't get bonus points in darts for how hard they throw it? As long as a woman can throw it hard enough to stick in the board that's all that matters. As Philarrow points out in the post after your's, Fallon Sherrock has proven that she can compete against the men in that sport.

Sherrock can compete, the same way Lydia Ko could compete on the European tour and beat a lot of males.
Neither will win their respective tournaments though.
No you don’t get bonus points for speed but trajectory, arc and some speed all comes hand in hand. Something that Males have evolved perfectly to learn.
As males we have evolved physically and neurologically due to our genealogical history for most sports were if you present the best lady in the world and the best man to compete the man will win.

 

[Fade and Die]

It would depend on the sport. Almost certainly not if it was boxing, cycling, swimming or other more physical activities. Absolutely no reason why not in sports such as snooker, darts, chess etc.

Think we are in the always tricky subject of what is a sport? Darts, snooker and chess (think you just lobbed that in to make up your examples) are games, no physical exertion required so absolutely everyone can compete equally.
In “Sports” like horse racing women can and do beat the best men.
“Sports” like motor racing are dominated by Men but I think that’s because girls are not as interested as boys from a younger age so they don’t go on and work there way through the pyramid to the top. No reason they could not though.

But in its truest form Sport is normally a physical competitive activity, so at its highest level men and women cannot fairly compete against each other.

 

[Slime]

Think we are in the always tricky subject of what is a sport? Darts, snooker and chess (think you just lobbed that in to make up your examples) are games, no physical exertion required so absolutely everyone can compete equally.
In “Sports” like horse racing women can and do beat the best men.
“Sports” like motor racing are dominated by Men but I think that’s because girls are not as interested as boys from a younger age so they don’t go on and work there way through the pyramid to the top. No reason they could not though.

But in its truest form Sport is normally a physical competitive activity, so at its highest level men and women cannot fairly compete against each other.

They neither have the strength nor the stamina of men, therefore they'd always struggle.
Motor racing is extremely physical at the highest levels.

 

[Fade and Die]

They neither have the strength nor the stamina of men, therefore they'd always struggle.
Motor racing is extremely physical at the highest levels.

Without going off subject too much I think it’s been proven that women have better stamina than men so it’s just the strength thing and when I look at Lewis’ physique I don’t think wow that’s special.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Sherrock can compete, the same way Lydia Ko could compete on the European tour and beat a lot of males.
Neither will win their respective tournaments though.
No you don’t get bonus points for speed but trajectory, arc and some speed all comes hand in hand. Something that Males have evolved perfectly to learn.
As males we have evolved physically and neurologically due to our genealogical history for most sports were if you present the best lady in the world and the best man to compete the man will win.

Are you actually genuine with this? I thought your first post was tongue in cheek ?

 

[Slime]

I'm still hoping that 2blue gives their opinion on the subject, as the only one to vote 'Yes',as I really am genuinely interested.
Unless the vote was 'just for a laugh', but I don't think so.

 

[Dando]

They neither have the strength nor the stamina of men, therefore they'd always struggle.
Motor racing is extremely physical at the highest levels.

I’m not sure Danica Patrick would agree

 

[Captainron]

Still waiting for @2blue to put his thoughts across on this issue. He clearly has a different opinion to the majority on here. Would be nice to hear why he thinks/believes that they should be allowed to compete.

 

[Orikoru]

More or less laughable than the alternative of watching transitioned female athletes beating birth female athletes? Yes, it would be a small field but at least they would be competing against their peers and any win would be properly acknowledged; as it stands any victory that a transitioned female athlete achieves is tainted for me, and I suspect the vast majority.

This is the opinion of someone with first hand experience of the subject;

Among those standing by Navratilova: her former tennis coach, who's also a world-renowned eye doctor, still practicing in her mid-80s. This doctor drew on her understanding of the science, citing medical journals. As she reaffirms months later in a deep, authoritative voice: "It is just biology. Men have 10 times the amount of testosterone that normal women have. [The peer-reviewed journal Clinical Chemistry has that number at seven or eight times.] Now you want to get rid of that testosterone? O.K., but then it is going to take a couple of years for that to equilibrate. And men still have a larger frame with a larger cardiac output, a larger lung capacity."

https://www.si.com/tennis/2019/06/2...ntity-politics-transgender-where-are-they-now

This is what I still can't understand. Surely research is being done to categorically prove the advantages a trans athlete might have? But we're not seeing it anywhere and sports governors are basically making it up with minor rules about suppressing testosterone which is only the tip of the iceberg. Are the scientific studies being silenced to not upset LGBT groups??

 

[phillarrow]

This is what I still can't understand. Surely research is being done to categorically prove the advantages a trans athlete might have? But we're not seeing it anywhere and sports governors are basically making it up with minor rules about suppressing testosterone which is only the tip of the iceberg. Are the scientific studies being silenced to not upset LGBT groups??

And, if research IS still being done, why not just say we need to await the outcome of that research before allowing trans-female athletes to compete with natural born women?

If it's not still ongoing...why not?

I read a story about the cyclist yesterday and I really felt sorry for her. She's clearly finding this whole thing difficult to deal with emotionally. But my view on that is that she is also a victim of the lack of clarity and firm decision making. Nobody is being helped by this daft halfway house approach currently being employed.

Get the research done, make a decision, publish it all, then stick to it. Until then, stick with natural born categories.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Are you actually genuine with this? I thought your first post was tongue in cheek ?

Am I genuine that women are better than men at certain things, Men better than women at certain things? Yes, yes I am.
It’s the way we have evolved, evolved to have certain traits, strengths, weaknesses and characteristics to survive since we are still animals.

On our way home earlier and went to a drive through Starbucks I’d never been to. I was driving looking for the order point but the other half said I’d driven past it. I missed it because as a male my perception is narrow from my hunting genes.
My missus spotted it because she has a wider perception and differentiates colours better being a female.

 

[phillarrow]

Whilst I agree with the principle that some of the natural differences between men and women can be explained by our evolution as Hunters/Gatherers, to present it in such absolute terms is just a bit silly, especially with the examples you are using.

There could be a thousand reasons why one person notices something that another person misses, to suggest it is only because of our traditional roles through evolution really rather oversimplifies a highly complex issue.

 

[Fade and Die]

Still waiting for @2blue to put his thoughts across on this issue. He clearly has a different opinion to the majority on here. Would be nice to hear why he thinks/believes that they should be allowed to compete.

Almost definitely lost in a woke rabbit hole. Who to favour, natural woman like your wives and sisters or men with mental disorders? ?

 

[chrisd]

The idea of having a competitions for trans competitors is really laughable, there are only a handful in each sport. That said I don't know the answer is, I am just glad that I play golf where any perceived physical advantage is by far outweighed by the skill aspect.

And, I guess the handicap takes care of enhanced, or maybe, reduced ability. In golf, at mostly our level, the handicap system would probably level out strength advantages or disadvantages

 

[phillarrow]

Almost definitely lost in a woke rabbit hole. Who to favour, natural woman like your wives and sisters or men with mental disorders? ?

That last line is bang out of order. ?
As well as showing total ignorance of the biology involved in being transgender. ?
If you don't understand something, why not try to find out and improve your understanding, rather then making nasty comments?

 

[Swango1980]

Am I genuine that women are better than men at certain things, Men better than women at certain things? Yes, yes I am.
It’s the way we have evolved, evolved to have certain traits, strengths, weaknesses and characteristics to survive since we are still animals.

On our way home earlier and went to a drive through Starbucks I’d never been to. I was driving looking for the order point but the other half said I’d driven past it. I missed it because as a male my perception is narrow from my hunting genes.
My missus spotted it because she has a wider perception and differentiates colours better being a female.

It could just be because you are a crap driver.

Or, just maybe, the fact you were driving meant most of your focus was on the road ahead of you. Hers wasn't.

Your example provides zero evidence about the potential differences between men and women.