Touching the sand

[Del]

Hi
Was playing a round yesterday, with a couple of chaps I met for the first time at my course, one of them was playing so he could put in a card ( his 3rd ) so he could get his h/cap.

On the 3rd hole he hit is second shot into a green side bunker, after taking a few swings outside the bunker, he then went to step into it, but as he did the edge gave way and he fell head first into the sand. He was fine, and in falling in he never touched or moved his ball. So he cleaned himself off and played his shot.

As we moved on his partner / friend said he would have to put down 2 extra shots for the hole, as when he fell he had his club in hand, which touched the sand, and again when he picked himself up.

Now they asked me, and I had to say I didn't know what to do aboubt the score, as yes he did touch the sand, but only because the ground gave way.

The chap was so unhappy at this he then gave up on his card and walked in.

So I have been looking around and asking in the club house, but as to yet not come up with the answer as to what was the right thing to do about his score.

Any ideas ??

Cheers

Del

 

[bobmac]

There is no penalty for grounding your club in the sand if it is to stop yourself from falling over as he was not testing the surface.

 

[bernix]

You find the relevant decision under rule 13-4 decision 3.5

 

[Macster]

I dont think there is a Club Handicap Commitee in the country that would have expected a penalty declaring for that, but I may be wrong.

 

[brendy]

Absolutely nothing wrong with what he did (the faller) he does not incur any penalty although you did get a photo!

 

[HarryMonk]

Nothing wrong IMO, and I'm sure a commitee would feel the same.

Who needs enemies on the golf course when your friends are marking cards like that???

 

[Smiffy]

Who was the guy that called it?
Colin Montgomery?

 

[minty18]

god thats harsh.... and you say the other golfer was his friend?

 

[Barney]

Dear me, That would be the last time I ever played with the 2@ who called that one. Its social golf not the bloody 'Race to Dubai'.
I cant stand people who do everything in their power to rain on someone elses parade !
Lets hope he gets his card and p1sses on the other bloke week in week out !

 

[USER1999]

This is where you should mark 2 scores on the card, and then decide which is right when you get back to the club house, when someone who knows the rules can consult the rule book, and give you the correct answer.

Don't rely on playing partners (no matter what h/cap) for interpretation of the rules, as they are as likely to be wrong as you.

If in doubt, you can also play out two balls (if there is a contentious drop for instance), record the scores, and then get a ruling later.

 

[bobmac]

Good point Murph. but be careful.
That rule about playing 2 balls and sorting it out later ONLY APPLIES TO STROKE PLAY.
If you are playing match play, the decision has to be made there and then. (just in case any newbies didnt know)
I would say always carry a rule book in your bag and if you are in any doubt when you finish, ask the best qualified person to advise you
He/she'll be behind the counter in the pro shop
Yet another invaluable service provided by your local PGA Professional.

 

[minty18]

My brother in-law tried penalising me for having practise swings in the bunker. I was touching sand but just swinging the club to get an idea of the amount of power i'd need. he was 3 dowwn so getting desperate i think. Once we got in the club house every other member confirmed i could swing in the bunker as long as i didnt touch any sand. He still thinks he's right.

 

[viscount17]

Unless I've read it wrong (always possible) the quiz for Rule 7.2 would seem to indicate that he's right.

http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/rules/rules_2008_2011.html

 

[bobmac]

Viscount, you're almost right. When the hole is finished, you are not allowed to hit practise shots out of a hazard of the hole just played, but as Minty said, he was just swinging the club getting a feel for the length of swing he wanted during the play of the hole, as long as he doesn't touch the sand or the ball

 

[Herbie]

My brother in-law tried penalising me for having practise swings in the bunker. I was touching sand but just swinging the club to get an idea of the amount of power i'd need. he was 3 dowwn so getting desperate i think. Once we got in the club house every other member confirmed i could swing in the bunker as long as i didnt touch any sand. He still thinks he's right.

Is this a slight misprint minty, I read that you swung and DID touch the sand? If so its a penalty.

As far as OP goes I think its been answered, A lot of rules cover some form of intent so accidents like this would not be penalised unless ball moved, I'd have to read up to be certain but I remain ignorant as its sometimes better that wayBut I wouldnt raise the issue if I found myself witnessing it.

 

[shanker]

I just wondered if Bobmac had heard about the American pro who hit it from a fairway bunker into a greenside bunker. Without thinking he raked the sand with his club and was penalised by the ref. What would happen in club golf if you knocked it out of one bunker into another. You then rake the trap and knock your ball back into the first bunker from the bunker on the other side of the green?

 

[EchtLoon]

I just wondered if Bobmac had heard about the American pro who hit it from a fairway bunker into a greenside bunker. Without thinking he raked the sand with his club and was penalised by the ref. What would happen in club golf if you knocked it out of one bunker into another. You then rake the trap and knock your ball back into the first bunker from the bunker on the other side of the green?

They changed the rule after that event, he wouldn't be penalised now.

 

[minty18]

sorry lads... I didnt toucch the ball or sand as i know this a no no! I just wave the club a few inches above the sand and have a few practise swings...

I'm certain this is legal???

 

[USER1999]

Sure it is. Usual hazard rules, no grounding of club. You can do whatever else you want with it really.

 

[minty18]

Thank god, thats exactly what i thought. Sorry lads if my first post was a bit misleading, i definitely know you cant ground the club in a hazard.