Tony Blair's chickens come home to roost!

delc

delc

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It seems that Europe is under siege from people fleeing war zones and Islamic State militants in Iraq and Syria. Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq failed to solve anything and has just made things much worse. Our politicians should learn to stay out of Middle Eastern politics! IMHO Tony Blair should be tried as a war criminal.
 
Blimey i didn't realise it was all down to Blair and that they didn't get rid of an evil murdering dictator who was responsible for hundred of thousands of deaths during ethnic cleansing
 
Oh go on then, I'll bite. Not going to try and defend Blair's actions over Iraq, but right now it's mainly Syrians, not Iraqis, that are fleeing from the conflict in their country. This BBC article has some figures showing the breakdown of numbers. If you want to get all long-term then we can point to foreign policy failures of successive post-war European and American governments but it's a bit rich to try to blame Blair for a crisis that kicked off in 2011, 4 years after he left office.

Have you considered a new career with the Express or Mail? :D
 
Hindsight is so useful and it was Bush's war not TB's. You are right though in that it has caused much of the current crisis but I can't help thinking that if you have a tyrant running a country, at times killing his own people but nevertheless keeping the country stable it is an uneasy place to be. We could quite easily stood aside in 1939.....the US did, but there comes a time when intervention is inevitable. Yes, he got that call wrong but war criminal? I don't think so.
 
Fyldewhite said:
Hindsight is so useful and it was Bush's war not TB's. You are right though in that it has caused much of the current crisis but I can't help thinking that if you have a tyrant running a country, at times killing his own people but nevertheless keeping the country stable it is an uneasy place to be. We could quite easily stood aside in 1939.....the US did, but there comes a time when intervention is inevitable. Yes, he got that call wrong but war criminal? I don't think so.
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Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I'd argue that it wasn't Bush's War, but the Carlyle group (along with other notable "groups") that were the driving force behind the invasion...
 
Whatever the rights or wrongs of Iraq and Afganistan, if you're not going to support the country after you have gone in and smashed it up (as you said you would), it's hardly surprising despot groups like ISIS rise up and cause mayhem. Once the initial combat was over, they should have been planning for decades of help and support, not 2 weeks and a picnic.
 
Saddam was indeed a murdering tyrant, but for a while he was the US's murdering tyrant back when they didn't give a toss about the Marsh Arabs and others he killed. Then he threatened their oil supply, so GWB had a bit of a war but didn't finish the job, so Saddam was then on the To Do list and 9/11 gave the green light, after some dodgy evidence was constructed.

In doing so, they destabilised the Middle East and set in train most of what is now going on, including Israel getting trigger finger on their nukes over Iran's nukes.
 
I suspect part of the problem was that Tony Blair was either coerced by GWB to be a coalition partner in 'the war on terror', or didn't have the balls to stand up to him and say no (like France). He then had to justify his position to the UK Parliament. Hence the 'Dodgy Dossier' and all the other faulty intelligence. I would also like to see GWB strung up as a war criminal, but can't see that happening.
 
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Ethan said:
Saddam was indeed a murdering tyrant, but for a while he was the US's murdering tyrant back when they didn't give a toss about the Marsh Arabs and others he killed. Then he threatened their oil supply, so GWB had a bit of a war but didn't finish the job, so Saddam was then on the To Do list and 9/11 gave the green light, after some dodgy evidence was constructed.
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9/11 gave the green light for the invasion of Afganistan and had nothing to do with Iraq.
 
delc said:
I suspect part of the problem was that Tony Blair was either coerced by GWB to be a coalition partner in 'the war on terror', or didn't have the balls to stand up to him and say no (like France). He then had to justify his position to the UK Parliament. Hence the 'Dodgy Dossier' and all the other faulty intelligence. I would also like to see GWB strung up as a war criminal, but can't see that happening.
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So you dont actually have any proof to any of that just "suspect"
 
I think for the problems in the middle east you have to go back to the fall out from WW1, when France and Britain carved up "areas of influence" for themselves, after the break up of the Ottoman empire.

Read a book called "A line in the sand", very informative. Most of all the problems stem from that, and back stage diplomats were as much at fault as the governments of the time.
 
Liverbirdie said:
I think for the problems in the middle east you have to go back to the fall out from WW1, when France and Britain carved up "areas of influence" for themselves, after the break up of the Ottoman empire.

Read a book called "A line in the sand", very informative. Most of all the problems stem from that, and back stage diplomats were as much at fault as the governments of the time.
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It's a lot more than that but I guess it's popular to blame the British or even the English for the ills of the world.

The Arab and Asian Nations are tribal and still follow a medieval mindset regarding religion and the cast systems they follow. They have always been killing each other due to their own divisions and racial hatred and probably always will. One thing you can count on they will take their prejudices with them where ever they move to and will not integrate fully into other societies.
 
SocketRocket said:
It's a lot more than that but I guess it's popular to blame the British or even the English for the ills of the world.

The Arab and Asian Nations are tribal and still follow a medieval mindset regarding religion and the cast systems they follow. They have always been killing each other due to their own divisions and racial hatred and probably always will. One thing you can count on they will take their prejudices with them where ever they move to and will not integrate fully into other societies.
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I never just go with popular on my opinions, and make my mind up for myself thank you very much.

I will defend the British empire, where I feel it's right, but I also know that it was majorly at fault in its foreign relations on lots of matters.

However, the major fault lines of the middle east, and tribal/cultural/ethnic demographics were ridden over roughshod when the British and French carved up the whole area. Do you not agree, or disagree with that - or do you have an overarching opinion that John Bull was never wrong.

Tribalism, religious wars, killing each other, divisions - Oh and us Europeans have never practiced any of that have we?

Pity I'm going to bed soon.....
 
Liverbirdie said:
I never just go with popular on my opinions, and make my mind up for myself thank you very much.

I will defend the British empire, where I feel it's right, but I also know that it was majorly at fault in its foreign relations on lots of matters.

However, the major fault lines of the middle east, and tribal/cultural/ethnic demographics were ridden over roughshod when the British and French carved up the whole area. Do you not agree, or disagree with that - or do you have an overarching opinion that John Bull was never wrong.

Tribalism, religious wars, killing each other, divisions - Oh and us Europeans have never practiced any of that have we?

Pity I'm going to bed soon.....
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Unlike them we managed to move on from the medieval mindset they perpetuate.
 
Indeed he was a murdering Xenophobe but he kept his country under a grip of iron control which the West has never been able to achieve and never will as we don't understand how the Middle East actually functions . Disposing of Saddam allowed the rise of IS. So what was worse Saddam or IS? Sometimes its best to let sleeping dogs like rather than making up lies about large caches of non existent chemical weaponry and WMD.
 
SocketRocket said:
Unlike them we managed to move on from the medieval mindset they perpetuate.
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By developing nuclear weapons,to keep a "who blinks first" peace?

Don't let a general 70 year gap or European wars lull you into thinking it will always be that way.

I still see no defence for Britain and France's carving up of the middle east.
 
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