Today's HOC Vote

Crazyface

Crazyface

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Should we go in and join everyone else bombing in Syria?

Usually I'd say yes. This time though, I'd much rather have the money spent on boosting our internal security forces. Police, Secret or otherwise, anyone rooted out by these people immediately removed with immediate effect to where they came from, and a serious tightening of our boarders with a big increase in immigration officials and facilities.
 
Crazyface said:
Should we go in and join everyone else bombing in Syria?

Usually I'd say yes. This time though, I'd much rather have the money spent on boosting our internal security forces. Police, Secret or otherwise, anyone rooted out by these people immediately removed with immediate effect to where they came from, and a serious tightening of our boarders with a big increase in immigration officials and facilities.
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The problem with that is the fact that the buggers would probably find a way to come back!

Slime.
 
Crazyface said:
Should we go in and join everyone else bombing in Syria?

Usually I'd say yes. This time though, I'd much rather have the money spent on boosting our internal security forces. Police, Secret or otherwise, anyone rooted out by these people immediately removed with immediate effect to where they came from, and a serious tightening of our boarders with a big increase in immigration officials and facilities.
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We need loads of welcomed and well-treated Syrians on the ground in the UK to help us identify and root out radicals and fundamentalists who might do us harm. Ah - but we don't really want any Syrians here - in fact we want Syrians to stay in Syria or we send back to Syria those trying to come here - to be at risk of becoming collateral damage of our bombing Bit of a paradox.
 
Crazyface said:
Should we go in and join everyone else bombing in Syria?

Usually I'd say yes. This time though, I'd much rather have the money spent on boosting our internal security forces. Police, Secret or otherwise, anyone rooted out by these people immediately removed with immediate effect to where they came from, and a serious tightening of our boarders with a big increase in immigration officials and facilities.
Click to expand...

Normally, I'd say yes. Not now. The landscape has changed and history shows that bombing really hasn't had the desired effect. On the flip side, how do we stop the establishment and spread of ISIS? Can't see it being done by peaceful means. A Syrian activist on the TV this morning was advocating the use of mass ground forces to overthrow President Asaad and then ISIS....
 
It's a no from me.

Will bombing IS in Syria make us safer in the short or long term? - in my opinion no.
Will bombing IS in Syria make the lives of innocent bystanders in Syria better/safer in the short or long term? - in my opinion no.

Will bombing IS in Syria accidentally kill innocents and thereby alienate the local population further from the west? - in my opinion yes

Can the West solve the problems in the region militarily? - in my opinion no.
Is there collective political will in the region to find a political solution? - in my opinion no.

Given the above, while the temptation to join in and 'do something' in the light of the dreadful acts of terror is strong, ultimately we'd be better off keeping our boys and girls safe, ensuring security at home and trying where possible to support anyone striving for a sensible political solution.

I know this sounds like a lily-livered weak response but without a strategic objective/plan bombs only kill people, they don't solve problems, and they often make things worse.

Having said all that I'm relieved it is not my responsibility to actually make these decisions, the whole thing is a tragic mess.
 
We either stand back and continue to watch innocent people die or we join our allies and help innocent people stay alive

It's a yes from me - in fact it's a no brainier

We have an evil organisation killing people and it's our duty to stand up to them
 
Liverpoolphil said:
We have an evil organisation killing people and it's our duty to stand up to them
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Unfortunately recent history indicates 'we' are often left standing alone...

Too often 'only' putting a toe in the water, to see the lie of the land, has seen 'us' truly up to our necks in it...

Believe the great British public are a little more reticent to be 'gung ho' these days...
 
MegaSteve said:
Unfortunately recent history indicates 'we' are often left standing alone...

Too often 'only' putting a toe in the water, to see the lie of the land, has seen 'us' truly up to our necks in it...

Believe the great British public are a little more reticent to be 'gung ho' these days...
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It's not about being "gung Ho"

And just dropping wherever - it's proper strategic planned precision bombing to help attempt to nullify their effect of IS

IMO it will be a dark day the day we stand back and do nothing to help innocent people
 
We send over hundreds of bombs, the support crews and pilots. Spend millions upon millions and kill maybe a handful of actual Isis freaks.
Look what happened in Paris not that long ago, that didn't cost much, only a few Isis freaks and look at the damage they did.
Unless bombing guarantees 100% results, this is not going to end cleanly nor any decade soon.
 
I wish I could be as certain as some on here.

I've been listening to the debate and to be honest, I don't envy the MP's their vote one little bit. I really don't know which division lobby I would be passing through tonight if I was an MP...
 
As I said on the other thread....not convinced, so I guess a no from me still at the moment.

I know there have been barbaric attacks in the west and don't in any way want to trivialise them but there have been upwards of two hundred thousand killed in Syria. thousands of them children and approx 5 million made homeless. THIS is the problem in the region, this is the situation ISIL are exploiting and this is the problem that must be addressed if we want to get anywhere. It's an Arab problem and will, sooner or later need an Arab solution. I'm yet to be convinced that bombing Arabs, even targeting bad ones but taking out innocent ones at the same time will accelerate that solution. I also don't think it will make our streets any safer. I'm not advocating "doing nothing" but surely there are better things we can do to get other Arab nations on board?
 
Tory MP's behaviour in the HoC is disgraceful. They are just bunch of loudmouth bully boy yobs.

Cameron set the benchmark by not apologising for calling fellow MP's 'terrorist supporters'.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Tory MP's behaviour in the HoC is disgraceful. They are just bunch of loudmouth bully boy yobs.

Cameron set the benchmark by not apologising for calling fellow MP's 'terrorist supporters'.
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Can certainly all the non Tory MP's being just as loud and rude

Maybe all the MP's should apologies for things they have said in the past - SNP and Labour included
 
It's a NO from me at the moment. I really haven't yet been persuaded that military action will do anything more than kill a minority, but radicalise a majority. I'd much prefer to attempt an attack on the funding and equipment pipelines. Strangle them where it really hurts. Remove the base and the tree will fall.

I am open to changing my mind if a coherent plan is put forward though.
 
We, the general public, won't get to know all the information that will help MPs decide whether to bomb Syria or where they will bomb - as is right, we shouldn't get to know.

Do we trust those in charge to make the right decision? Hmmmm.

I'm undecided personally, I can see both sides but Iraq/Afghanistan stay long in the mind.
 
Even 'strategic' bombing (sic) will not eradicate IS but will serve as an excellent recruiter for some disaffected folks otherwise undecided as to whether to join in - "oh look, we're being bombed again, why should I stand for that?"

The intelligent option is to solve the problem at source (why do people join) and remove this attraction. This way however is hard (bringing together diametrically opposed groups), time consuming and costly due to being anathema to governments selling weapons.

We'll bomb, create more bad feeling, set off reprisals, kill innocent folks, sells arms, rinse and repeat.
 
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