The Real Problem with the NHS

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The real problem with the NHS is us.

These days - and I believe it is a fairly recent thing - too many of us have an overblown sense of entitlement, and expectations way exceeding what the NHS could ever deliver. Too many of us are all too ready to complain from the word go; show very little appreciation and gratitude towards all those working hard to do the very best for us; are unwilling to accept it's not all about them and that they are but one patient and maybe not the most deserving of priority. And at the end of it all too many readily decide that they have been hard done by, or have not got the response or respect that they deserve - and so with feelings of massive injustice and resentment raise complaints against the professional or professionals who they have been treated or supported by. As a result NHS staff are feeling battered, demoralised, and completely worn out. And that's why so many experienced NHS professionals are saying - I'm out. And so the cycle that will bring the NHS to it's knees goes on.

And it will be us - the public - who will have made that come to pass.

Just a thought.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

On the other hand , aren't advances in medical science to blame, I mean if we didn't have antibiotics, anti cancer drugs, new surgical proceedures then the Grim Reaper would visit these shores more often and our individual medical expectations would therefore be lower than they are .

As it is we have a potentially first class health service, which is making advances all the time, so why shouldn't these advances be used for the benefit of the general population .
The nhs is suffering from too many management posts, expensive drug bills and staff shortages leading to a reliance on expensive "bank staff".

More resources need to be put into local care for the elderly and mental health departments, so that people can be discharged from hospital once the acute part of their treatment is sorted, this will filter down and help the A&E departments.

 

[Tashyboy]

Interesting, but no got to disagree with a lot of what you say.

left a post on a recent NHS topic in which Missis Tash was well and truly shafted by people within the NHS. none of that was addressed in your post and listening to my beloved, a lot of battered Nurses are battered from within the system.

listening to my wife a lot of what is wrong with the NHS can be put right by Nurses and doctors who work within the system and know where the problems lie. Why are they not asked or listened to.

another problem is that. Missis Tash is adamant that there are career patients. = costly.

One thing I will disagree with you on is that Tashyboy is quick to moan and why not. But I am twice as quick to pat people on the back for a job well done.

in Missis Tashyboys job as Urology outreach, she has met people from all walks of life, some salt of the earth. Others well, the bloke that twated Missis Tash the other week falls into that category.

there are a lot of things wrong with the NHS, but I think a lot of what you say Mr Swings are not the real problems with the NHS but with individual planks using the NHS.

looking forward to an opinionated topic.

 

[Tashyboy]

Missis Tash was finished as a bank nurse coordinator at the local hospital. She was involved in training, hiring and firing. She loved her job. They covered jobs through the bank for any nurses and care assistants etc that were off through holidays or sicknes, long and short term. They covered over 95% of available shifts every week.
her job was made redundant to save £35-40K.
(as it happened it was the best thing that happened to her) However that's not the point. The local newspaper is reporting that the same hospital is having a recruitment drive looking for 140 nurses (locally) because it cannot afford to keep paying £400K per month to agency's supplying Nurses, care assistants etc etc.
Stinks to high heaven is an understatement. The same middle management clowns that disposed of Missis Tashyboys job promise to support the new highly skilled nurses that will start. Flippin Hypocrits.
Off to work now ranting.

from a thread earlier today I posted.

As posted by phil the fragger post no2
The nhs is suffering from too many management posts, expensive drug bills and staff shortages leading to a reliance on expensive "bank staff".

BOOM.

 

[Odvan]

The real problem with the NHS is us.

These days - and I believe it is a fairly recent thing - too many of us have an overblown sense of entitlement, and expectations way exceeding what the NHS could ever deliver. Too many of us are all too ready to complain from the word go; show very little appreciation and gratitude towards all those working hard to do the very best for us; are unwilling to accept it's not all about them and that they are but one patient and maybe not the most deserving of priority. And at the end of it all too many readily decide that they have been hard done by, or have not got the response or respect that they deserve - and so with feelings of massive injustice and resentment raise complaints against the professional or professionals who they have been treated or supported by. As a result NHS staff are feeling battered, demoralised, and completely worn out. And that's why so many experienced NHS professionals are saying - I'm out. And so the cycle that will bring the NHS to it's knees goes on.

And it will be us - the public - who will have made that come to pass.

Just a thought.

Disagree entirely SILH. The staff want 'out' due to stresses placed upon them by management, which come from their respective Trusts, which comes from Government directives. At the same time, funding has decreased or is being syphoned off into private deals and not to the 'shop floor' where it belongs.

As it stands, right now, tonight I have examples from both patient and staff aspects and it's frightening to know what really happens if you're not in 'the know', something that was mentioned in the other thread.

Like a few posters on here, I could write chapter and verse on this but won't. Ive actually encouraged my missus to start writing a diary on some of the stuff she gets asked to do, I promise ya, it would make for a best seller (that's why I asked her to do it ).

Only recently she has started to revert to email after my encouragement in response to requests she's had 'over the phone' as they've quite simply been career threatening actions that she's been asked to do and it's all to do with ticking boxes, A&E being off target and needing beds in hospitals that don't have beds, or the relevant number of staff to serve those beds.

Why does my missus want out - being the only qualified nurse on a ward with 20 patients that all need the same level of care. One has a massive internal bleed, a condition whereby you simply swallow all your own fluids but it goes straight to your lungs, it's incurable, save the life, it'll happen again. It happens - everyone paged, they save the life but guess what, the trauma team simply goes off to the next job. Meanwhile, one nurse is left with this patient and 19 others. The one patient now needs round the clock monitoring and one-to-one care but the other 19 all need their bloods doin, meds given, drips changed, bags changed, sheets changed etc etc. The nurse asks for help up above, does it come....what do you think?

Question, which one of the twenty would you like you nearest and dearest to be? The one that's really, really sick to ensure they get care, or one of the other 19 that are now getting ignored that are really sick, just not as sick as the other?

That's what pisses the REAL nursing staff off and that's why they all want out.

You are right in the fact that we all have an expectation to be dealt with well and lots of people aren't, they don't know it sometimes, but they aren't. But it isn't the fault of those people wanting out, it's the fault of those above, one rung or more. It's a business now and the real carers don't get that, it really fustrates them, they just want the facilities to provide and care for. Those above have no choice but to meet unrealistic targets set against reduced budgets whilst at the same time not realising that they should be making their own positions redundant to save money.

Perhaps I've wrote chapter and verse after all, perhaps I believe that front line NHS staff are national heroes. Perhaps I think certain other 'proffesionals' are absolute tossers for going on strike. Perhaps I simply live with someone who comes home from work stressed to the max and hating every last minute of it for the reasons above. Sad part about it is, she loves 'nursing'. One of our angels being battered by the system.

Stuff is close to my heart at the minute so it's a rant rather than direct response but even so, anybody disrespecting front line staff are simply, simple...

 

[Tashyboy]

Disagree entirely SILH. The staff want 'out' due to stresses placed upon them by management, which come from their respective Trusts, which comes from Government directives. At the same time, funding has decreased or is being syphoned off into private deals and not to the 'shop floor' where it belongs.

As it stands, right now, tonight I have examples from both patient and staff aspects and it's frightening to know what really happens if you're not in 'the know', something that was mentioned in the other thread.

Like a few posters on here, I could write chapter and verse on this but won't. Ive actually encouraged my missus to start writing a diary on some of the stuff she gets asked to do, I promise ya, it would make for a best seller (that's why I asked her to do it ).

Only recently she has started to revert to email after my encouragement in response to requests she's had 'over the phone' as they've quite simply been career threatening actions that she's been asked to do and it's all to do with ticking boxes, A&E being off target and needing beds in hospitals that don't have beds, or the relevant number of staff to serve those beds.

Why does my missus want out - being the only qualified nurse on a ward with 20 patients that all need the same level of care. One has a massive internal bleed, a condition whereby you simply swallow all your own fluids but it goes straight to your lungs, it's incurable, save the life, it'll happen again. It happens - everyone paged, they save the life but guess what, the trauma team simply goes off to the next job. Meanwhile, one nurse is left with this patient and 19 others. The one patient now needs round the clock monitoring and one-to-one care but the other 19 all need their bloods doin, meds given, drips changed, bags changed, sheets changed etc etc. The nurse asks for help up above, does it come....what do you think?

Question, which one of the twenty would you like you nearest and dearest to be? The one that's really, really sick to ensure they get care, or one of the other 19 that are now getting ignored that are really sick, just not as sick as the other?

That's what pisses the REAL nursing staff off and that's why they all want out.

You are right in the fact that we all have an expectation to be dealt with well and lots of people aren't, they don't know it sometimes, but they aren't. But it isn't the fault of those people wanting out, it's the fault of those above, one rung or more. It's a business now and the real carers don't get that, it really fustrates them, they just want the facilities to provide and care for. Those above have no choice but to meet unrealistic targets set against reduced budgets whilst at the same time not realising that they should be making their own positions redundant to save money.

Perhaps I've wrote chapter and verse after all, perhaps I believe that front line NHS staff are national heroes. Perhaps I think certain other 'proffesionals' are absolute tossers for going on strike. Perhaps I simply live with someone who comes home from work stressed to the max and hating every last minute of it for the reasons above. Sad part about it is, she loves 'nursing'. One of our angels being battered by the system.

Stuff is close to my heart at the minute so it's a rant rather than direct response but even so, anybody disrespecting front line staff are simply, simple...

And having read that lengthy post twice. There's not a single letter I can disagree with, furthermore there are a few million partners both male and female who would agree with every word you said.
Only bit you missed out is when your beloved is late home every day due to her love of the job and love of giving to the patients.
well wrote.

 

[Odvan]

Missis Tash was finished as a bank nurse coordinator at the local hospital. She was involved in training, hiring and firing. She loved her job. They covered jobs through the bank for any nurses and care assistants etc that were off through holidays or sicknes, long and short term. They covered over 95% of available shifts every week.
her job was made redundant to save £35-40K.

Sorry Tash, do I understand right - Mrs Tash simply did a rota and a bit of HR?

 

[SocketRocket]

Back to the OP. I agree that peoples expectations and feelings of entitlement are very much to blame for the overload in health services. It's Ok for NHS staff to say they are overworked but I don't hear of many resolutions to their problems, do they suggest an open flow of funds will fix it? Is it all the fault of the Administrators or the Government with their never ending need for targets?

I would suggest (and I understand that this will not be popular) that everything in the NHS be privatised where possible and the contracts are on fixed cost where the contractors are responsible for services and administration. people in the UK need to understand that if they want first class services they have to pay for it and this will be as a mixture of NI for basic needs and private insurance for the extra services.

I would put it to you that the state is not capable of providing an NHS that meets peoples expectations and many peoples expectations do not meet what they are prepared to pay for it. Cough up or put up!

 

[Odvan]

Back to the OP. I agree that peoples expectations and feelings of entitlement are very much to blame for the overload in health services. It's Ok for NHS staff to say they are overworked but I don't hear of many resolutions to their problems, do they suggest an open flow of funds will fix it? Is it all the fault of the Administrators or the Government with their never ending need for targets?

I would suggest (and I understand that this will not be popular) that everything in the NHS be privatised where possible and the contracts are on fixed cost where the contractors are responsible for services and administration. people in the UK need to understand that if they want first class services they have to pay for it and this will be as a mixture of NI for basic needs and private insurance for the extra services.

I would put it to you that the state is not capable of providing an NHS that meets peoples expectations and many peoples expectations do not meet what they are prepared to pay for it. Cough up or put up!

Perhaps you should have segmented your reply but I get your point entirely and it's a valid one.

The segmentation: "NHS Staff" - that's just too broad by way of terminology, the people that can actually shape and change things, the same people that are caring for you and I were it matters, are the ones whos opinions are brushed aside, because their opinions mean more cash, regardless of the relevance. Funnily enough, they didn't have that opinion years ago because there were Matrons, Sisters and 4/5 nurses to a ward and that's 'how it rolled'. To be fair, it's the same in any corparate business anywhere now - lots of suits believe they know better about the 'business' than those who know the 'system'. Employ em for 200k and they'll save you, erm, 200k....

Privatised or not, more money, by someone, would have to be spent to ensure the level of care we expect is given because quite frankly the shortfall is massive but I'm trying to keep the politics away from this, but it's difficult!

Interestingly, my missus has the opinion that we as a nation are extremely fortunate regardless of the current state of the service and whilst in an ideal world it remain a free service is an advocate of the American way, but then that's mixing up politics and social elements into it. Ultimately, she trained because it's something she wanted to do and patient care for her is paramount, it's just who she is. No doubt like many others. She has offered many resolutions to various problems inflicted by whatever restraints they are shackled by, sadly they fall on willing deaf ears by 'NHS' (loosely termed) staff that don't belong in the same segment as those there, serving the right purpose.

 

[SocketRocket]

Perhaps you should have segmented your reply but I get your point entirely and it's a valid one.

The segmentation: "NHS Staff" - that's just too broad by way of terminology, the people that can actually shape and change things, the same people that are caring for you and I were it matters, are the ones whos opinions are brushed aside, because their opinions mean more cash, regardless of the relevance. Funnily enough, they didn't have that opinion years ago because there were Matrons, Sisters and 4/5 nurses to a ward and that's 'how it rolled'. To be fair, it's the same in any corparate business anywhere now - lots of suits believe they know better about the 'business' than those who know the 'system'. Employ em for 200k and they'll save you, erm, 200k....

Privatised or not, more money, by someone, would have to be spent to ensure the level of care we expect is given because quite frankly the shortfall is massive but I'm trying to keep the politics away from this, but it's difficult!

Interestingly, my missus has the opinion that we as a nation are extremely fortunate regardless of the current state of the service and whilst in an ideal world it remain a free service is an advocate of the American way, but then that's mixing up politics and social elements into it. Ultimately, she trained because it's something she wanted to do and patient care for her is paramount, it's just who she is. No doubt like many others. She has offered many resolutions to various problems inflicted by whatever restraints they are shackled by, sadly they fall on willing deaf ears by 'NHS' (loosely termed) staff that don't belong in the same segment as those there, serving the right purpose.

There is no such thing as a free meal. The service may be free at the point of delivery but it is payed for by the tax payer. There is no such thing as Government funds, only tax payers funds.

 

[palindromicbob]

another problem is that. Missis Tash is adamant that there are career patients. = costly.

Totally agree with that. I know of several that have cost hundreds of thousands to the NHS trust without having any major medical treatment. Simply abusive of the service.

 

[Odvan]

There is no such thing as a free meal. The service may be free at the point of delivery but it is payed for by the tax payer. There is no such thing as Government funds, only tax payers funds.

Check out the big brains on bread!

Thanks, had you not mentioned it, I'd have never realised the majority of us pay taxes toward the service. I might vote now.

As I said, in an ideal world it would be free, completely. Please refer to the more realistic and perhaps un-UK view of the American way being right and proper. A separate debate entirely from the OP.

Highlighting 10 words to attempt to make a point from all the above without even completing the sentence is on a par with a Daily Sport journo.

 

[Tashyboy]

Sorry Tash, do I understand right - Mrs Tash simply did a rota and a bit of HR?

No Odvan, by trade she is a nurse, who's main trait was surgical and Gynaecology/Urology her position was made redundant when a ward was closed due to"savings" and the only job available was bank nurse coordinator. Part of which involved hiring and firing, training and assessing on wards. The HR side was done by three office girls.
She hired dozens of people who have since gone on to become full time employees as care assistants and a few of them have gone on to become nurses. She has also been threatened with solicitors because she would not employ people who could not speak English and called "Rascist" because of it.

 

[Ethan]

listening to my wife a lot of what is wrong with the NHS can be put right by Nurses and doctors who work within the system and know where the problems lie. Why are they not asked or listened to.

another problem is that. Missis Tash is adamant that there are career patients. = costly.

And of course Mrs Tash is quite right, the NHS has plenty of money coming into it and excellent staff, but much of the money is wasted before it gets to patients, and the staff are treated in an appealing manner.

The sad reality is that for some of the politicians, the NHS is not a way of delivering good quality healthcare to the population in an efficient manner, but is a vehicle for ideological or self-serving initiatives, currently mainly involving wholesale transfer of parts of it to the private sector.

I trained as a doctor in the NHS but now work in R&D in the pharmaceutical industry, helping develop new medicines. I look at the NHS now from a private sector perspective. The private sector has no magic dust that automatically instills greater efficiency. It only creates efficiency by cutting staffing and skill levels down to what they can get away with, and this is exactly what happens whenever one of these private hospitals tales over some NHS facility, and usually the pie is fattened for them first too.

But the private sector (alt least the part I am in) treated its employees well, with decent salary, nice working conditions and some benefits. The NHS reneges on pay agreements, charges people to park at work and it is no wonder so many are leaving. The reliance on bank staff is wrong. The NHS needs well motivated permanent staff who can work in a family friendly way. Instead morale is at an all time low and goodwill (which was an essential part of the mix) has evaporated for many.

And there are certainly career patients, some of whom consume massive amounts of resources. There always were and always will be, but that is the way it goes in a universal healthcare system free at the point of (ab)use.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My post was intended to generate debate - I fully recognise there are many other issues with the NHS

But it was prompted by a call by a trainee GP to a phone in yesterday evening - backed up by my wife (a breast cancer nurse specialist) - in which he stated consultant friends of his working in the NHS and privately find that private patients are generally grateful and pleasant whilst the same could only be said for one in five NHS patients.

My wife does feel pressures from management but they are nothing compared with the stress, hassle and upset caused by her patients and unfortunately her NHS patients are the worst - and she thinks it is the feeling of entitlement they have - something that politicians seem to reinforce

 

[Crazyface]

It's like anything that you buy / pay for yourself, you take greater care of it.

Also, one of the biggest complaints people have about NHS staff is that you can usually see a mass of them gathered around the desk in the ward chatting away. Casualty (TV show) shows this every week. It does not look good. If you have to chat, and sure we all like to do this, but for Gods sake do it away from where the public can see you !!!!!!

PS
Last year wifey had the most incredible treatment from NHS staff I have ever witnessed. Just to let you know that if you are ever admitted to Salford Royal Hospital, you will be having THE BEST care of anywhere.
They also do not hang around the desks there!!!!!!

 

[Odvan]

No Odvan, by trade she is a nurse, who's main trait was surgical and Gynaecology/Urology her position was made redundant when a ward was closed due to"savings" and the only job available was bank nurse coordinator. Part of which involved hiring and firing, training and assessing on wards. The HR side was done by three office girls.
She hired dozens of people who have since gone on to become full time employees as care assistants and a few of them have gone on to become nurses. She has also been threatened with solicitors because she would not employ people who could not speak English and called "Rascist" because of it.

That sounds, so, so familiar, particularly the latter. The crap nurses who, let's say, don't speak the Queens too well, who also generally break the codes of practise often, due to incompetence, you could say, are getting away with murder! But the auxiliarys are just as bad!

 

[Odvan]

It's like anything that you buy / pay for yourself, you take greater care of it.

Also, one of the biggest complaints people have about NHS staff is that you can usually see a mass of them gathered around the desk in the ward chatting away. Casualty (TV show) shows this every week. It does not look good. If you have to chat, and sure we all like to do this, but for Gods sake do it away from where the public can see you !!!!!!

PS
Last year wifey had the most incredible treatment from NHS staff I have ever witnessed. Just to let you know that if you are ever admitted to Salford Royal Hospital, you will be having THE BEST care of anywhere.
They also do not hang around the desks there!!!!!!

Crazyface, that's were my missus and the family are virtually living at the moment and you're spot on, the hospital is in a different league to its near neighbours.

 

[SocketRocket]

Check out the big brains on bread!

Thanks, had you not mentioned it, I'd have never realised the majority of us pay taxes toward the service. I might vote now.

As I said, in an ideal world it would be free, completely. Please refer to the more realistic and perhaps un-UK view of the American way being right and proper. A separate debate entirely from the OP.

Highlighting 10 words to attempt to make a point from all the above without even completing the sentence is on a par with a Daily Sport journo.

Calm down dear, it's only a Golf Forum! I would point out again the service is not free, the tax payer funds it, I get a bit fed up with people suggesting public services are free. The NHS is only free at the point of use.

 

[Tashyboy]

As regards patients being ungrateful, what about the time Missis Tash went to someone's house for a 1pm appointment made the week before. theres no answer at the door so Missis T rings this guy, who is full of apologies coz he got talking to his mate in the pub and didn't realise the time. Al be there in 10 mins he says. fantastic says Missis T coz you have been told a thousand times re alcohol and in 10 mins time I won't be here. See you next week in hospital.
unbelievable.