The Footie Thread

[Bdill93]

I didn't watch the game but I saw footage and clips of Mbappe's goal, and he was absolutely offside. How did they still get that wrong with VAR? Someone said a defender touched it, but when paused as the midfielder passes it, Mbappe was already off so the offside should stand. Or have they changed the rule now??

Heard earlier that because the defender tried to play the ball - its on...... madness

 

[Orikoru]

Heard earlier that because the defender tried to play the ball - its on...... madness

That's what I mean, but I don't know when that crept into the public consciousness. My understanding was, if the player was already in an offside position when the original pass was played he's still offside. That shouldn't be 'cancelled out' because a defender tried and failed to clear it? As you say, that would be madness. A world where the defender is better off straight up ignoring a player and allowing the pass to go through rather than trying to clear the ball.

 

[Bdill93]

That's what I mean, but I don't know when that crept into the public consciousness. My understanding was, if the player was already in an offside position when the original pass was played he's still offside. That shouldn't be 'cancelled out' because a defender tried and failed to clear it? As you say, that would be madness. A world where the defender is better off straight up ignoring a player and allowing the pass to go through rather than trying to clear the ball.

EUFA have different offside rules than FIFA - they discussed it during the England game coverage

 

[Orikoru]

EUFA have different offside rules than FIFA - they discussed it during the England game coverage

What the... that's ridiculous! We're playing the same game aren't we?? Jesus Christ. No wonder the officials struggle in my Sunday League, they probably don't know what rules we're meant to be using.

 

[Bdill93]

What the... that's ridiculous! We're playing the same game aren't we?? Jesus Christ. No wonder the officials struggle in my Sunday League, they probably don't know what rules we're meant to be using.

EUFA go in favour of the attacker - Fifa do not

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It was clarified earlier this year when City scored against Villa and Rodri took the ball off Mings when coming back from an offside position.

Spurs won a penalty a few years back at Anfield when Lovren mishit the ball to Kane who was offside when the ball was played

It’s not offside if an opposing player makes a deliberate attempt to play the ball, a deflection or accidental touch is still offside.

VAR last night decided the contact from the Spaniard was a deliberate attempt to play the ball.

 

[Orikoru]

It was clarified earlier this year when City scored against Villa and Rodri took the ball off Mings when coming back from an offside position.

Spurs won a penalty a few years back at Anfield when Lovren mishit the ball to Kane who was offside when the ball was played

It’s not offside if an opposing player makes a deliberate attempt to play the ball, a deflection or accidental touch is still offside.

VAR last night decided the contact from the Spaniard was a deliberate attempt to play the ball.

I think this was slightly different because Lovren made such a hash of it he was deemed to be in full possession of the ball (because he should have controlled it comfortably). But of course I would say that.😆 I wouldn't have objected much if that one had have been given offside. This rule seems daft because in theory someone could just stand offside waiting for a pass and hoping the defender gets a touch on it. It should be if you're offside when your teammates kicks it then you're offside. The defender wouldn't have to try and play it if you weren't there standing offside, it's a silly paradox.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think this was slightly different because made such a hash of it he was deemed to be in full possession of the ball (because he should have controlled it comfortably). But of course I would say that.😆 I wouldn't have objected much if that one had have been given offside. This rule seems daft because in theory someone could just stand offside waiting for a pass and hoping the defender gets a touch on it. It should be if you're offside when your teammates kicks it then you're offside. The defender wouldn't have to try and play it if you weren't there standing offside, it's a silly paradox.

What about the scenario were a player is an offside position and a defender intercepts a pass then cocks up a deliberate backpass.

I agree it’s not clear, but it is intended to give the attack the advantage

 

[Orikoru]

What about the scenario were a player is an offside position and a defender intercepts a pass then cocks up a deliberate backpass.

I agree it’s not clear, but it is intended to give the attack the advantage

That would be defender error for me. If he actually takes possession of it then it's a new phase of play or whatever they call it now. But I'm talking about ones where a defender is lunging for the ball and gets a tiny nick on it, failing to cut it out - you can't let that cancel out an offside player, it's insane.

 

[Swango1980]

I think this was slightly different because Lovren made such a hash of it he was deemed to be in full possession of the ball (because he should have controlled it comfortably). But of course I would say that.😆 I wouldn't have objected much if that one had have been given offside. This rule seems daft because in theory someone could just stand offside waiting for a pass and hoping the defender gets a touch on it. It should be if you're offside when your teammates kicks it then you're offside. The defender wouldn't have to try and play it if you weren't there standing offside, it's a silly paradox.

Your absolutely right to be stunned. The football lawmakers do not even understand the original concept of offside, not undertand the game from a footballers point of view, that they interpret last nights incident to be onside. The Spanish defence played a good line, so that Mbappe was in an offside position. The Spanish defender did the right thing in trying to cut out the forward pass, as he cannot of course be sure if Mbappe or any other French attacker times their run perfectly. Had the defender completely missed the ball, it would have been offside. But, as he got a slight touch, and deliberately tried to get a touch, then suddenly Mbappe is onside. It is crazy, ridiculous and shameful that the lawmakers get it so wrong. But, there you go, they seem to do that a lot.

 

[Swango1980]

What about the scenario were a player is an offside position and a defender intercepts a pass then cocks up a deliberate backpass.

I agree it’s not clear, but it is intended to give the attack the advantage

To me, that would be onside. If a defender has either been judged to have been in control of the ball, or played a controlled one touch pass backwards, then the attacker should be onside. However, if the defender has not yet got fully under control of the ball, or try to intercept a through ball, then it should be the same phase of play and offside. In some occasions, the ref may need to make a call as to whether he thinks the defender was under control or not, however most of the time it should be fairly obvious.

 

[Orikoru]

Your absolutely right to be stunned. The football lawmakers do not even understand the original concept of offside, not undertand the game from a footballers point of view, that they interpret last nights incident to be onside. The Spanish defence played a good line, so that Mbappe was in an offside position. The Spanish defender did the right thing in trying to cut out the forward pass, as he cannot of course be sure if Mbappe or any other French attacker times their run perfectly. Had the defender completely missed the ball, it would have been offside. But, as he got a slight touch, and deliberately tried to get a touch, then suddenly Mbappe is onside. It is crazy, ridiculous and shameful that the lawmakers get it so wrong. But, there you go, they seem to do that a lot.

Yeah. One of the main reasons I watch a hell of a lot less football now than I used to.

 

[Bdill93]

Your absolutely right to be stunned. The football lawmakers do not even understand the original concept of offside, not undertand the game from a footballers point of view, that they interpret last nights incident to be onside. The Spanish defence played a good line, so that Mbappe was in an offside position. The Spanish defender did the right thing in trying to cut out the forward pass, as he cannot of course be sure if Mbappe or any other French attacker times their run perfectly. Had the defender completely missed the ball, it would have been offside. But, as he got a slight touch, and deliberately tried to get a touch, then suddenly Mbappe is onside. It is crazy, ridiculous and shameful that the lawmakers get it so wrong. But, there you go, they seem to do that a lot.

I honestly see this as a good rule not a bad one. More goals overall.

We (football fans) all moaned when attackers were having goals ruled out - now they've addressed it in some competitions, we are moaning the guys offisde......

5 years ago we moaned that refs needed help/ VAR.

We will always moan is the moral of the story.

 

[Orikoru]

To me, that would be onside. If a defender has either been judged to have been in control of the ball, or played a controlled one touch pass backwards, then the attacker should be onside. However, if the defender has not yet got fully under control of the ball, or try to intercept a through ball, then it should be the same phase of play and offside. In some occasions, the ref may need to make a call as to whether he thinks the defender was under control or not, however most of the time it should be fairly obvious.

Definitely obvious on VAR!

 

[Orikoru]

I honestly see this as a good rule not a bad one. More goals overall.

We (football fans) all moaned when attackers were having goals ruled out - now they've addressed it in some competitions, we are moaning the guys offisde......

5 years ago we moaned that refs needed help/ VAR.

We will always moan is the moral of the story.

lol, what? Just scrap the offside rule altogether then? Loads of goals. Get rid of goalkeepers as well actually. More goals!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

To me, that would be onside. If a defender has either been judged to have been in control of the ball, or played a controlled one touch pass backwards, then the attacker should be onside. However, if the defender has not yet got fully under control of the ball, or try to intercept a through ball, then it should be the same phase of play and offside. In some occasions, the ref may need to make a call as to whether he thinks the defender was under control or not, however most of the time it should be fairly obvious.

It comes down to the word deliberate and its interpretation by the Referee, surely the clarification has been made to reduce inconsistencey by Officials? There’s been nothing worse than a Ref giving a decision one week and another Ref the week after seeing it differently.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That would be defender error for me. If he actually takes possession of it then it's a new phase of play or whatever they call it now. But I'm talking about ones where a defender is lunging for the ball and gets a tiny nick on it, failing to cut it out - you can't let that cancel out an offside player, it's insane.

So if a defender goes to trap a ball and he mis-controls it, surely that’s defender error and you are suggesting he’s allowed gets away with.

 

[fundy]

lol, what? Just scrap the offside rule altogether then? Loads of goals. Get rid of goalkeepers as well actually. More goals!

Before you know it someone will be suggesting bigger goals, just like bigger golf holes

 

[Orikoru]

So if a defender goes to trap a ball and he mis-controls it, surely that’s defender error and you are suggesting he’s allowed gets away with.

That's offside as well. The only time it wouldn't be offside is if the defender consciously kicks it back to the forward not realising he was there. As Swango said, it will be the ref's interpretation from the VAR replay, but you just cannot allow situations like that Spain/France one. Before long you'll have defenders hesitating to actually clear the ball just in case they only get a toe on it which plays someone offside. Then it will become commonplace like players trying to tackle with their hands behind their backs, which we've all accepted as normal now after some of the farcical handballs of the last five years.

 

[Swango1980]

I honestly see this as a good rule not a bad one. More goals overall.

We (football fans) all moaned when attackers were having goals ruled out - now they've addressed it in some competitions, we are moaning the guys offisde......

5 years ago we moaned that refs needed help/ VAR.

We will always moan is the moral of the story.

That is not a great argument in being in favour of this interpretation. Unless you are in favour of scrapping offside altogether? You could also ignore any accidental handballs by attackers (even with outstretched arms), but give penalties when the defender does the same. More goals after all.

It may sound fantastic, until your team loses an important match because of it. Had England lost the World Cup final on such a goal, I can imagine the reaction over here. Not a good one. Sure, if England won on the same type of goal, there'd be celebrations, but there would be at least a little embarrassment from decent fans that they got away with one based on a dodgy rule.

Refs did need help. They got it in VAR. The reason it was criticised is that its use was appalling. It also resulted in the rules being changed on a weekly basis. Why? Because VAR or not, there will always be inconsistent decisions, subjectivity will always play a role, whether it be by the guy on the field or the guy watching it on the monitor.