The Footie Thread

Swango1980

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I'm a United fan and Ole embarrasses me.

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL (despite no Roy Keane leadership). But, excuses are continually made for Ole. Weak defensive midfield, not Ole's fault.

I've never really watched a top.side and thought they've the perfect player in ever position. The best teams have several great player, leaders, workers and a great manager to.get them playing to.full potential. Pepe or Klopp, I'm fairly confident they'd win many trophies with this Utd team. Ole looks for his players to inspire him.

All I can hope for is Ole proves me wrong. But he has done nothing to make me think that is a realistic dream.
 

ColchesterFC

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You saw Gareth at the Euros didn’t you.
Must agree with you though some baffling decisions.
I think England achieved what they did despite Southgate being manager rather than because he was manager. With Man Utd it's the same. Anything they achieve will be in spite of having Ole as manager rather than because of having him as manager.
 

Tashyboy

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I think England achieved what they did despite Southgate being manager rather than because he was manager. With Man Utd it's the same. Anything they achieve will be in spite of having Ole as manager rather than because of having him as manager.
I think this hits the nail firmly on the head. Both Ole and Southgate do no wrong re PR etc. You find it very hard to dislike them. You will them to succeed ( with the exception of Ole coz am a City fan). But for me, they are poor championship managers that are not get the full potential out of there squads.
 

chrisd

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So, Southgate has underachieved?

He's been in charge for 49 proper competitive matches and only lost 8 of them, he's managed 64 matches overall and lost only 10 of them and is heading to be the most successful England manager of all time stats wise.

He's changed the team to one of younger players and given them a longer run than many of his predecessors have done and now looks like he could properly challenge for silverware. Yes, we question decisions he makes as we are entitled to, but the team have definitely not "won in spite of him and not because of him" as has been said here . Had Big Sam still been in charge, or his predecessor Roy Hodgson, would the stats have been as impressive, would we have the young vibrant team we do now ?

I personally don't think there is another English manager better than the one we have who has also bought together the players, where in the past players from Utd, Liverpool, Spurs etc were anything but "team mates".
 
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Liverpoolphil

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So, Southgate has underachieved?

He's been in charge for 49 proper competitive matches and only lost 8 of them, he's managed 64 matches overall and lost only 10 of them and is heading to be the most successful England manager of all time stats wise.

He's changed the team to one of younger players and given them a longer run than many of his predecessors have done and now looks like he could properly challenge for silverware. Yes, we question decisions he makes as we are entitled to, but the team have definitely not "won in spite of him and not because of him" as has been said here . Had Big Sam still been in charge, or his predecessor Roy Hodgson, would the stats have been as impressive, would we have the young vibrant team we do now ?

I personally don't think there is another English manager better than the one we have who has also bought together the players, where in the past players from Utd, Liverpool, Spurs etc were anything but "team mates".
Having no better English manager isn’t that great an endorsement - the last high level English manager is prob Bobby Robson - there hasnt been one who has achieved what he did as a manager.

If England want to continue with an English only manager then it will be falling short each time

Southgate was out managed by someone who has managed at the highest level and been successful at it - if Mancini was in charge of England in that game then England would have won the Euros
 

Lord Tyrion

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Having no better English manager isn’t that great an endorsement - the last high level English manager is prob Bobby Robson - there hasnt been one who has achieved what he did as a manager.

If England want to continue with an English only manager then it will be falling short each time

Southgate was out managed by someone who has managed at the highest level and been successful at it - if Mancini was in charge of England in that game then England would have won the Euros
I'm no great fan of Southgate, too conservative for me, but in what way was he 'out managed' by Mancini. Mancini's Italy could not beat England after 120 + minutes of play. They are not a minnow nation, they are a very good, top level team on a heck of an unbeaten run. They needed penalties to win. You don't out manage someone to a penalty win.
 
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Liverpoolphil

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I'm no great fan of Southgate, too conservative for me, but in what way was he 'out managed' by Mancini. Mancini's Italy could not beat England after 120 + minutes of play. They are not a minnow nation, they are a very good, top level team on a heck of an unbeaten run. They needed penalties to win. You don't out manage someone to a penalty win.
After England went ahead , Mancini was making small subtle changes that turned the game away from England - even small things swapping the wide players around which proved to be successful for them - England as a team were more talented than Italy , the attacking line up that England could field was frightening and Southgate didn’t change a thing because he was scared to lose - Mancini managing that squad would have won the game for England - he wouldnt have been afraid to make both tactical and personnel changes.

After about 15 mins Italy dominated that game and Southgate did nothing to try and change that and that imo comes down to him not having the high level tactical awareness
 

Lord Tyrion

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After England went ahead , Mancini was making small subtle changes that turned the game away from England - even small things swapping the wide players around which proved to be successful for them - England as a team were more talented than Italy , the attacking line up that England could field was frightening and Southgate didn’t change a thing because he was scared to lose - Mancini managing that squad would have won the game for England - he wouldnt have been afraid to make both tactical and personnel changes.

After about 15 mins Italy dominated that game and Southgate did nothing to try and change that and that imo comes down to him not having the high level tactical awareness
I agree with most of your post but equally Italy could not beat us in open play. If you can't do that then Mancini can not claim managerial superioirty imo, I'm not saying he is incidentally. A bolder England manager would have won that game but I think we have done that to death at the time.
 

Orikoru

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I'm no great fan of Southgate, too conservative for me, but in what way was he 'out managed' by Mancini. Mancini's Italy could not beat England after 120 + minutes of play. They are not a minnow nation, they are a very good, top level team on a heck of an unbeaten run. They needed penalties to win. You don't out manage someone to a penalty win.
Mancini didn't sub on two fellers to take a penalty with their first kick of the night to be fair. :LOL:
 
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Having no better English manager isn’t that great an endorsement - the last high level English manager is prob Bobby Robson - there hasnt been one who has achieved what he did as a manager.

If England want to continue with an English only manager then it will be falling short each time
Cant argue with what Robson achieved as a manager in club football certainly, but on the international stage?

  1. Somewhat unfortunate to exit Spain '82 at the 2nd group stage (what an awful idea that was!!!) without losing a game
  2. Failed to qualify for Euro 84
  3. Stumbled upon Beardsley/Lineker (forced changes due to red cards/injury) as a front pairing which got us to the WC QF's in 1986....but only finished 2nd to Morocco in the group.
  4. Finished bottom of our group losing all three games at Euro 88
  5. Lost a W/C semi final on pens in 1990 (and what is often overlooked is that we scraped to a 1-0 win over Egypt in the final group game to avoid the drawing of lots to see who qualified from the group)

Arguably Southgate has already eclipsed that.
 
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chrisd

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It's all very well to say " if this, if that" but Mancini was not the England manager and it's sheer speculation what anyone in charge of the England team would, or wouldn't do with a completely different set of players. We got a team to the final and that's been done very few times so I reckon Southgate must be better than most, but there are people on here who clearly know more about running a national team and I suspect some of those were saying that we'd do well to get through the group stage!
 
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4LEX

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Not Southgate's biggest fan but he's a top man and has created a united squad, which England haven't had since Venables. He's benefitted from easy draws in the major tournaments but he's still been the most successful England manager since 66. He's definitely short tactically and is scared to make big calls during important games. Against Croatia and Italy, England were excellent in the first half of both and went ahead, but both times he was like a rabbit in the headlights and did nothing. Both games gradually slipped away and England were lucky to make it to extra time in Russia and to penalties against Italy.

Overly defensive and lacking in game management are the big negatives, I hope he learns from the mistakes for the World Cup. Theres a lack of a real world class side and this will be the best chance we ever have of winning it. Every England game will be like a home game, due to so many ex pats in Dubai flying in. I'm going to be there for it and can't bloody wait!
 
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Liverpoolphil

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It's all very well to say " if this, if that" but Mancini was not the England manager and it's sheer speculation what anyone in charge of the England team would, or wouldn't do with a completely different set of players. We got a team to the final and that's been done very few times so I reckon Southgate must be better than most, but there are people on here who clearly know more about running a national team and I suspect some of those were saying that we'd do well to get through the group stage!
It’s called debate and opinion on a forum 🤷‍♂️

Surely people can debate even if they aren’t a football manager 🙄
 
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