The First Year of WHS - Positives and Negatives

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
11,907
Can anyone help me this, I'm most confused..
Today I played Moor Allerton, Leeds. It's a course with three 9 hole loops.

Out of the three I played two, off the yellow tees.

Front 9
Name: Lakes
Score: 43
Course Rating: 35.1
Slope Rating: 125

Back 9
Name: High
Score: 41
Course Rating: 35.6
Slope Rating: 132

Total Par: 71
Course Handicap: 16
Gross Score: 84
Adjusted score: 84

Note: Course ratings and Slope ratings are from USPGA site.

On the handicap page on my golf app it lists the differential score as 44.1, and the rating as 35.2, which seems incorrect? How do I work this out?


Moor Allerton Golf Club (1011478) - Blackmoor 10 to 18; 19 to 27;

Moor Allerton Golf Club (1011478) - High 1 to 9; 19 to 27;

Moor Allerton Golf Club (1011478) - Lakes 1 to 18

It would appear that you actually played the High course

https://www.randa.org/worldhandicapsystem/Lookup?CourseID=22448&ClubCountry=0&ClubName=Moor Allerton&ClubCity=&ClubCounty=undefined

PS: The link above is to the R&A site but the US site is via the USGA not the USPGA.
 

Barking_Mad

Active member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
329
Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
228
Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
Possibly you've registered for a 9 hole round then returned an 18 hole score, thus the huge differential??
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
11,907
Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
The first 9 holes of the Lakes are the same first 9 of the High (ie 1-9 of the 27 holes).
The second 9 holes of the High are the same back 9 of the Blackmoor (19-27 of the 27 holes).
You played holes 1-9 & 19-27 (which makes up the High). Off the yellow tees the Course Rating for the 18 you played is 70.7 and the Slope is 129.
 

Barking_Mad

Active member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
329
The first 9 holes of the Lakes are the same first 9 of the High (ie 1-9 of the 27 holes).
The second 9 holes of the High are the same back 9 of the Blackmoor (19-27 of the 27 holes).
You played holes 1-9 & 19-27 (which makes up the High). Off the yellow tees the Course Rating for the 18 you played is 70.7 and the Slope is 129.
What a bonkers system. We I said my app is giving me a differential of 44.1 which can't be right so I've emailed them. Thanks for the help πŸ‘
 

BiMGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
3,291
What a bonkers system. We I said my app is giving me a differential of 44.1 which can't be right so I've emailed them. Thanks for the help πŸ‘
Have you input your stableford points?
Can you post a screenshot of your round details?
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
11,907
What a bonkers system. We I said my app is giving me a differential of 44.1 which can't be right so I've emailed them. Thanks for the help πŸ‘
Pretty well all 27 hole circuits use the same system. Three courses each combining a different 18 holes.
 

Barking_Mad

Active member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
329
Have you considered user error/incompetence/stupidity may be the issue here?
Hi,

I have double checked my gross score on Golfpad and checked the 9 hole loops were correctly assigned. All appears to be correct. On the screen where I select my tee for the round it gives a Course Rating of just 35.2. That looks wonky. The slope is correct and my course handicap.

FWIW it just seems, on the face of it confusing to not make them all 9 holes and let you pair two together, rather than listing them as above. To be fair the bloke in the proshop said it was a confusing place to play πŸ€”
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
11,907
Hi,

I have double checked my gross score on Golfpad and checked the 9 hole loops were correctly assigned. All appears to be correct. On the screen where I select my tee for the round it gives a Course Rating of just 35.2. That looks wonky. The slope is correct and my course handicap.

FWIW it just seems, on the face of it confusing to not make them all 9 holes and let you pair two together, rather than listing them as above. To be fair the bloke in the proshop said it was a confusing place to play πŸ€”
They have done exactly that. Holes 1-9 and 19-29 have been paired together to make the High course

The R&A website that I pointed you to shows that the 18 holes you actually played are correctly rated as the High course.
The Yellow tees have a Course Rating of 70.7 and a Slope of 129. As shown in this link.

https://www.randa.org/courseteeinfo?CourseID=22447&ClubCountry=0&ClubName=Moor Allerton&ClubCity=&ClubCounty=undefined

You will also see under Club/Course Name that it is described as the High course

Incidentally the USGA site is exactly the same as the R&A site.

https://ncrdb.usga.org/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=22447

Your differential would seem to be 11.7 (e&oe)
 
Last edited:

Banchory Buddha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
1,119
Hi,

I have double checked my gross score on Golfpad and checked the 9 hole loops were correctly assigned. All appears to be correct. On the screen where I select my tee for the round it gives a Course Rating of just 35.2. That looks wonky. The slope is correct and my course handicap.

FWIW it just seems, on the face of it confusing to not make them all 9 holes and let you pair two together, rather than listing them as above. To be fair the bloke in the proshop said it was a confusing place to play πŸ€”
You've selected the 9 hole option instead of the 18. Rulefan has done the hard work for you, lesson learned.
 

2blue

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
3,607
Location
Leeds,
Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
If you found these course combinations complicated then how did you get on with the S.I.'s? Each course being numbered from 1 to 9.
Yes, I'd agree that it appears you've registered for just 9 holes.
However, you have managed to choose a remarkably dry Nov to play one of N Leeds's best courses which in a normal Nov would have been pretty heavy going. :LOL::LOL:
 

Barking_Mad

Active member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
329
You've selected the 9 hole option instead of the 18. Rulefan has done the hard work for you, lesson learned.
It's not me, it's an issue with the app. They've emailed to say they've amended the course details, but now when I go to reassign the 9 hole loops one of 9 (High course) is missing from the list entirely πŸ˜‚

They're in the process of fixing it....

I might not understand the hole loops and how they assign them but the app calculations weren't my doing πŸ˜‰
 
Last edited:

Barking_Mad

Active member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
329
If you found these course combinations complicated then how did you get on with the S.I.'s? Each course being numbered from 1 to 9.
Yes, I'd agree that it appears you've registered for just 9 holes.
However, you have managed to choose a remarkably dry Nov to play one of N Leeds's best courses which in a normal Nov would have been pretty heavy going. :LOL::LOL:
Thankfully the app got those bits correct, so all good there.

It was a bit fresh, sunny and very windy. Course was in good condition, especially the greens, but soft on the fairways. I'd say it would be pretty unplayable with the usual amount of rain we get.

Played well though for an 84 πŸ‘
 

Imurg

Grand Slam Winner
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
32,776
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - if it has then I've missed it.
As per an email from EG, if pre-registered rounds are not entered into the system in a timely manner....an automated penalty score will be applied to the handicap record.
A penalty score will be applied....that implies that they're going tomguess your score and add a bit....
Isn't this just playing into the hands of the Sandbagger?
How is this going to work?
The email says your HI could be adjusted up or down...again, are they going to guess your numbers?
Confused.......
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
4,892
Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - if it has then I've missed it.
As per an email from EG, if pre-registered rounds are not entered into the system in a timely manner....an automated penalty score will be applied to the handicap record.
A penalty score will be applied....that implies that they're going tomguess your score and add a bit....
Isn't this just playing into the hands of the Sandbagger?
How is this going to work?
The email says your HI could be adjusted up or down...again, are they going to guess your numbers?
Confused.......
I'm not 100% what the automatic penalty score will be, but I'm almost sure it will be a score equal to Course Rating + Course Handicap. This will actually usually result in a reduced handicap, as a score equal to your course handicap will become one of your top 8 and remove your 8th best score (I say usually, because occasionally you may be losing a very good score that WAS your 20th oldest).

Therefore, the penalty score should not result in increasing handicap and benefit sandbaggers.

However, I also assume these will be flagged to Committee so they can easily check when this occurs? They can then adjust the penalty score if appropriate, as per WHS guidance. For example, if they feel low handicappers are not returning a score from bad rounds (to keep a low handicap), they can set a penalty score equal to the players worst score in last 20. If they feel a player is not returning good scores as they do not want big decreases in handicap, they can set the penalty score equal to the players best score in 20.
 
Top