Taylor made talking out or their trousers?

[Maninblack4612]

Extract from TM advertising for the SLDR Driver "..can help all golfers get closer to the ideal launch conditions of 17 degrees / 1700 rpm" Ideal for whom? Me, Justin Rose, my mate Jim, who plays off 24 & has a swingspeed of 75 mph? I always thought optimum launch angle depended on swingspeed and that, for some swingspeeds, 1700rpm wasn't ideal.

 

[mab]

Have a play around... you may be surprised by the results.

http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

[the_coach]

No they ain't really, you'd be well advised to look into it closely whatever swing speed, a plus AoA, launch angle over 13d & sweet spot contact to reduce the spin rate by some, will give anyone greater carry, but still a similar peak height & descent angle so you still get run out too, result, optimum distance overall for whatever CHS transferred into optimum BS.
On another thread here somewhere I detailed my findings having looked at it on Trackman myself it's definitely true for sure.

 

[Foxholer]

While 17/1700 isn't 'ideal' - 18* produces better numbers for me on 'normal' surface, so that disproves 'ideal' - it does produce near optimum numbers.

Actually getting to 17/1700 though is highly unlikely! SLDR certainly won't do that.

They have, however, introduced a 30 day 'guarantee', which shows their faith in the product - or at least the small print!

 

[Maninblack4612]

To be honest, I think this latest TM "gimmick" is the only recent one that actually has any material effect on ball flight & distance. I'm convinced, and would love to own one, but not at the full price. As far as backspin is concerned I have always believed that slow swing speeds combined with low backspin resulted in the ball not staying airborne long enough, but I haven't seen any figures, just didn't feel that the same figure could be ideal for everyone. Golf club manufacturers have been known to make extravagant claims before, you know!

 

[MashieNiblick]

Fun little gizmo. What ball speed should I use for a driver if my head speed is low 90's? I tried 135mph with 1,700 spin and got best overall distance with around 24/25 degrees.

 

[mab]

Fun little gizmo. What ball speed should I use for a driver if my head speed is low 90's? I tried 135mph with 1,700 spin and got best overall distance with around 24/25 degrees.

When you strike the ball well, your smash factor should be around 1.48 or more, so multiply you clubhead speed by 1.48.

Regarding your second point, achieving a 17* launch with only 1700rpm spin is incredibly difficult and not possible for the VAST MAJORITY of human beings. I have no doubt distance would improve at all ball speeds if launch could increase to 25* whilst spin was maintained at 1700rpm... and would be even better if you could launch at 25* and lower spin to 1000rpm... but that is completely unrealistic.

17 / 1700 is Taylormade's opinion of what is a potentially achievable optimum or, more likely, what they're aiming to get more (maybe many?) golfers to through technological improvements to their equipment over the next couple of years.

Any reference to 25 / 1700 or 25 / 1000 and Taylormade would lose all credibility. However, 17 / 1700 is within the realms of possibility and, therefore, seen as a credible optimal launch.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Extract from TM advertising for the SLDR Driver "..can help all golfers get closer to the ideal launch conditions of 17 degrees / 1700 rpm" Ideal for whom? Me, Justin Rose, my mate Jim, who plays off 24 & has a swingspeed of 75 mph? I always thought optimum launch angle depended on swingspeed and that, for some swingspeeds, 1700rpm wasn't ideal.

After purchasing my TM OS Burner irons last year I read this within months (from TM) "All other irons are inferior. The Speed Pocket makes all other irons inferior. It’s nothing personal. It’s innovation."
Nice one, TM.
At least I have a ready excuse for a s hite round.
And.... If I have a good round "Imagine if I had superior clubs".

 

[MashieNiblick]

When you strike the ball well, your smash factor should be around 1.48 or more, so multiply you clubhead speed by 1.48.

Regarding your second point, achieving a 17* launch with only 1700rpm spin is incredibly difficult and not possible for the VAST MAJORITY of human beings. I have no doubt distance would improve at all ball speeds if launch could increase to 25* whilst spin was maintained at 1700rpm... and would be even better if you could launch at 25* and lower spin to 1000rpm... but that is completely unrealistic.

17 / 1700 is Taylormade's opinion of what is a potentially achievable optimum or, more likely, what they're aiming to get more (maybe many?) golfers to through technological improvements to their equipment over the next couple of years.

Any reference to 25 / 1700 or 25 / 1000 and Taylormade would lose all credibility. However, 17 / 1700 is within the realms of possibility and, therefore, seen as a credible optimal launch.

Cheers.

Tried 140 mph (95 x 1.48) at 17 degrees and 1700 spin rate. Not optimal for me so still confused at idea that this is the optimum.

I'm no expert but isn't 1700 very low? Some interesting figures here.

http://mytrackman.com/explore/trackman-data/trackman-ball-data/spin-rate

Looks like 2800-3200 is a more normal figure for a driver, with launch angles 11 -13. So it seems 17/1700 is high launch-low spin.

Interestingly I put the tour averages from the Trackman site (10.9/2686) into the Flightscope simulator for my ss and got and 216.2 carry/231.1 total (medium ground). Did same with the mid h/cap average (12.6/3275) and got 223.6/231.8. So it would seem there is no point me trying to replicate a tour player's launch conditions with my swing speed.

As I say I'm no expert in any of this and not really a numbers geek but I can see how it can become quite fascinating, trying to optimise these numbers.

 

[Maninblack4612]

achieving a 17* launch with only 1700rpm spin is incredibly difficult and not possible for the VAST MAJORITY of human beings.

Agreed. Read this

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/launchOptimize.php

A great explanation by an engineer of the relationship of launch angle to spin and the impossibility of getting to the theoretical optimum.

Anyway, I bought a used SLDR last night, getting it re shafted tomorrow and then we'll see how much effect it has on my spin laden swing.

 

[mab]

Tried 140 mph (95 x 1.48) at 17 degrees and 1700 spin rate. Not optimal for me so still confused at idea that this is the optimum.

Out of interest, which launch and spin combination would you consider better than 17 / 1700 for your 140mph ballspeed?

If you maintained a 17* launch angle but increased spin, I would expect that you would increase carry by a couple of yards but on medium and moreso hard fairways, I would expect Flightscope to indicate your total distance would be down slightly when compared with 17 / 1700.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Out of interest, which launch and spin combination would you consider better than 17 / 1700 for your 140mph ballspeed?

If you maintained a 17* launch angle but increased spin, I would expect that you would increase carry by a couple of yards but on medium and moreso hard fairways, I would expect Flightscope to indicate your total distance would be down slightly when compared with 17 / 1700.

I think I got the best result (medium ground) with 21* launch at 2100rpm which gave 246 total and 237.7 carry compared to 244/228.5 for 17/1700.

However It would seem, going by the averages on the Trackman site, that 21 degrees launch is very high so might not really be feasible.

The Trackman numbers for the mid/h'cap range (12.6/3275 for 231.8/223.6) pretty much matches my actual driver distances so 17/1700 would give me a significant improvement.

 

[mab]

I think I got the best result (medium ground) with 21* launch at 2100rpm which gave 246 total and 237.7 carry compared to 244/228.5 for 17/1700.

However It would seem, going by the averages on the Trackman site, that 21 degrees launch is very high so might not really be feasible.

The Trackman numbers for the mid/h'cap range (12.6/3275 for 231.8/223.6) pretty much matches my actual driver distances so 17/1700 would give me a significant improvement.

You should expect spin to increase by around 300rpm for every degree of launch so, given that 17 / 1700 is incredibly difficult to achieve, 21 / 2100 would be even more difficult... verging on impossible for a mere mortal.

 

[MashieNiblick]

You should expect spin to increase by around 300rpm for every degree of launch so, given that 17 / 1700 is incredibly difficult to achieve, 21 / 2100 would be even more difficult... verging on impossible for a mere mortal.

Yeah there had to be a catch. As I say I'm not a numbers guy so it was only when I saw the Trackman stats that I realised that was probably not a realistic scenario. Going by those I guess I would need an 8 or 9 iron to get 21* launch