Taking shelter from rain

[NearHull]

A bit of help please. Played today in a medal comp. At times the rain was extremely heavy - at times it was stair rods.

The group behind were stood on the tee of a short par 3 under umbrellas as the heavens had opened up (again). We had cleared that green and all started to play our tee shots on the next hole a par 4 ( as I minded our group that you can’t take shelter for an unreasonable period). We played all four tee shots ( in the very heavy rain) and were approaching our balls to take our second shots as the rain stopped and the group behind started to play their tee shots to the par 3. (Parallel fairway/holes.)

Ive read the rules 5.7 and 5.6 which seems to indicate that you cannot take shelter from rain for a unreasonable period - as I had thought and my group had complied with.

But what is unreasonable? And what is the penalty should it be deemed that the group behind were taking shelter and had stopped play unreasonably. To note , the green was clear, they were doing nothing but waiting out the rain.

 

[jim8flog]

The penalties

Penalty for Breach of Rule 5.6a:
• Penalty for first breach: One penalty stroke.
• Penalty for second breach: General Penalty.
• Penalty for third breach: Disqualification.
If the player unreasonably delays play between two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

 

[NearHull]

The penalties

Penalty for Breach of Rule 5.6a:
• Penalty for first breach: One penalty stroke.
• Penalty for second breach: General Penalty.
• Penalty for third breach: Disqualification.
If the player unreasonably delays play between two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

Thank you. I’ve now got to decide what to do. i mentioned it to the Club Captain when I came in but it’s up to me I guess to report it to the comp committee. ( though it was the Captain's Medal day).

 

[NearHull]

Does the penalty only apply to the player whose honour it was?

 

[fundy]

who decides what is unreasonable and is there guidance anywhere? ie in decisions explained or similar?

 

[jim8flog]

Does the penalty only apply to the player whose honour it was?

Under Ready Golf there is nothing to stop a player teeing off if the player with the honour is not willing to tee off.

If there is an agreement between all the players to wait I would apply the penalty to all of them.

 

[jim8flog]

who decides what is unreasonable and is there guidance anywhere? ie in decisions explained or similar?

There is no 'reasonable' under this rule

A player must not unreasonably delay play, either when playing a hole or between two holes.
A player may be allowed a short delay for certain reasons, such as:
• When the player seeks help from a referee or the Committee,
• When the player becomes injured or ill, or
• When there is another good reason.

I do not see 'because it is raining' as a good reason.

I do see pausing to put on waterproofs as a good reason.

 

[fundy]

There is no 'reasonable' under this rule

A player must not unreasonably delay play, either when playing a hole or between two holes.
A player may be allowed a short delay for certain reasons, such as:
• When the player seeks help from a referee or the Committee,
• When the player becomes injured or ill, or
• When there is another good reason.

I do not see 'because it is raining' as a good reason.

I do see pausing to put on waterproofs as a good reason.

well there clearly is, if were gonna be pedantic about these sorts of things, hence why i asked the question

 

[jim8flog]

well there clearly is, if were gonna be pedantic about these sorts of things, hence why i asked the question

Sorry got two things going on at once at the moment and yes there is reasonable.

 

[fundy]

I think Jim covered it.
All the players putting their bag covers on, umbrellas up, putting waterproofs on, maybe changing glove etc is normal in a sudden downpour.

All standing round under umbrellas peering at the skies waiting for the rain to lighten off is not allowed.

says who, where is this guidance from or is this just your opinion of what reasonable is?

 

[jim8flog]

You've got that the wrong way round.
Ready golf is just a way of keeping things moving in circumstances where the normal order would take longer.

If everyone is on the tee, a player "not willing to tee off" doesn't get a get-out clause because of "ready golf".

I also said

If there is an agreement between all the players to wait I would apply the penalty to all of them.

IMO A player who does not want to get the penalty would be entitled to tee off if the others do not want to.

 

[fundy]

It's a real-life opinion on what is reasonable on a golf course, as opposed to undue delay.

I didn't realise you're on the internet steroids again.

sigh

so no rule just your opinion

 

[jim8flog]

Examples where the Committee is likely to disqualify a player under Rule 5.7a for stopping play include when:

• 
  
• 
  
• The player takes shelter from rain for a significant amount of time.

 

[fundy]

Examples where the Committee is likely to disqualify a player under Rule 5.7a for stopping play include when:

• 
  
• 
  
• The player takes shelter from rain for a significant amount of time.

ty Jim, where is this from?

 

[jim8flog]

ty Jim, where is this from?

The interpretations

 

[Imurg]

Examples where the Committee is likely to disqualify a player under Rule 5.7a for stopping play include when:

• 
  
• 
  
• The player takes shelter from rain for a significant amount of time.

Who decides on "significant " "reasonable" and "unreasonable"..?

 

[NearHull]

Who decides on "significant " "reasonable" and "unreasonable"..?

It’s a good question. In my view , what I observed was unreasonable. From their perspective - assuming they knew the rule - it would not have been unreasonable or they would have played. But it is more likely that they were not aware of the rule.

 

[Fish]

Who decides on "significant " "reasonable" and "unreasonable"..?

Would that not be the result from any impact on the rest of the field, or others in the same group, where they become unduly delayed by that group or any person within its actions, in taking cover when others in the field didn’t, or didn’t take as long?

But with that said, it’s my belief that irrelevant of any impact on the field, you should also not unduly delay yourself!

Changing clothes, preparing yourself due to a sudden storm etc is reasonable, simply standing huddled either as a group or as a single Player, just to stay drier, is not, imo.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Thank you. I’ve now got to decide what to do. i mentioned it to the Club Captain when I came in but it’s up to me I guess to report it to the comp committee. ( though it was the Captain's Medal day).

I would be giving this a wide berth unless you want to make a name for yourself at your club.

 

[Fish]

No it is not relevant to whether anyone is behind you, the reason being that the rules of pace of play and undue delay apply to every group and every player.
The last group out have to stick to the same rules when there's nobody behind them.
Completely agree with last paragraph.

my point was, that if there was nobody behind them nobody would have known, thus anyone behind would have highlighted that they were held up, as they should in any circumstance irrelevant of the weather conditions if they’ve lost ground.

How many clubs time groups coming in, had they been a last group and come in 20 minutes or more behind the group before them, who would be any the wiser?

im fully aware of ‘pace of play’, I’ve been complaining about certain repeat offenders at my club all season, hence my second single line paragraph which you seemed to disregard!