Swat the ball away from the hole

[Canfordhacker]

PP had a lapse of concentration today. Playing medal, rolled his putt for double bogey 6 up to hole but it didn't drop (shot hole). Thinking he hadn't scored a Stableford point, he swatted it away with the back of the putter in disgust.

It's a deliberate hit of the ball, albeit with the back of the putter and in no way intended to be a golf shot. What should he have done next?

 

[Liverpoolphil]

What did he do ?

Would expect it's counted as a stroke so he could replay the shot under penalty or play it from where the ball landed ?

 

[palindromicbob]

He done one of two things.

Did he swat at with the intention of hitting it. If so stroke stands (see definition of stroke), next stroke from where it ends up or could take stroke and distance under penalty of 1 stroke replace it and try again from beside the hole.

If he swung in frustration without intending to hit the ball then it falls under Rules 18-2 Ball at rest moved. It's a 1 stroke penalty and ball must be replaced.

Either way he has definitely not scored any points on the hole.

 

[Colin L]

Not quite, Bob. It seems clear that he intended to hit the ball but that does not make it a stroke. Knocking a ball away in annoyance, fury, despair ... is not considered a stroke. See Decision 18-2a/23. He must replace the ball with one penalty stroke.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-18,d18-2a-23

A factor to consider in deciding whether hitting a ball is a stroke or not is whether it was intended to be a stroke counting towards the player's score.

 

[Liverpoolphil]

So does that mean someone can just put a ball on the ground and smack it in anger but it won't count because he wasn't intending on it being a scoring shot ?!

 

[rulefan]

So does that mean someone can just put a ball on the ground and smack it in anger but it won't count because he wasn't intending on it being a scoring shot ?!

It won't count as a 'stroke' but the penalty of one stroke will count.If he doesn't replace it, it will be another penalty.
Depending on where it finished and was played from, it may be a Serious Breach with a potential penalty of DQ.

 

[palindromicbob]

It won't count as a 'stroke' but the penalty of one stroke will count.If he doesn't replace it, it will be another penalty.
Depending on where it finished and was played from, it may be a Serious Breach with a potential penalty of DQ.

So basically all treated under 18-2 regardless. Not so bad then. 1 stroke penalty, replace and get on with it. Actually one of the few rules that doesn't seem harsh enough.

I better start replacing a lot of my drives though

 

[rulefan]

So basically all treated under 18-2 regardless. Not so bad then. 1 stroke penalty, replace and get on with it. Actually one of the few rules that doesn't seem harsh enough.

I better start replacing a lot of my drives though

No. If you are starting play from the teeing ground the ball is not yet in play. So no penalty.

 

[backwoodsman]

Is not the outcome of both the O P and 18-2a/23 less to do with intention and more to do with definition? In both, the ball was hit with the back of the putter; therefore was it not a backward movement of the club, rather than the forward movement required by definition to make it a stroke?

Would the decision be the same if the swat had been forwards with the face of the putter?

 

[Colin L]

Is not the outcome of both the O P and 18-2a/23 less to do with intention and more to do with definition? In both, the ball was hit with the back of the putter; therefore was it not a backward movement of the club, rather than the forward movement required by definition to make it a stroke?

Would the decision be the same if the swat had been forwards with the face of the putter?

I would take a forward movement to be towards the ball and a backwards movement to be away from the ball regardless of which side of the clubhead is used.

The ruling would be the same in the OP's case whether the back or the face of the club was used.

 

[backwoodsman]

I would take a forward movement to be towards the ball and a backwards movement to be away from the ball regardless of which side of the clubhead is used.

The ruling would be the same in the OP's case whether the back or the face of the club was used.

Fair comment. I was just wondering as it were.

(And indeed, as I was typing, I had in mind those few occasions where one deliberately uses a back-hander with the back of a club to get out of trouble - a tree root say. I couldn't argue that wouldn't be a stroke...)

 

[Canfordhacker]

Not quite, Bob. It seems clear that he intended to hit the ball but that does not make it a stroke. Knocking a ball away in annoyance, fury, despair ... is not considered a stroke. See Decision 18-2a/23. He must replace the ball with one penalty stroke.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-18,d18-2a-23

A factor to consider in deciding whether hitting a ball is a stroke or not is whether it was intended to be a stroke counting towards the player's score.

Thanks Colin, that's brilliant, and was in fact what we did after discussion. The discussion centred around the fact that he did intend to hit the ball, therefore should it be a stroke. However, the differentiator is that he certainly didn't intend it to count towards his score, and that was the piece of the jigsaw that I was missing in my head.