Supplementary Cards - Open to cheats?

[Wendy]

Evening, just a quick one here to gauge opinion. As per my first post when I joined up I explained my boyfriend is a PGA Professional. At the club we have a computer in the shop to allow players to sign in on medal/competition days and also play supplementary rounds as the main computer is not always accessible in the lounge. This computer is always on during shop hours.

At the tale end of last year we had an incident at the club. I was helping out one day and as we were closing up one of the members came in and asked us to put the computer back on. My boyfriend asked what for and the member replied "I hit it great out there today so I want to put in my card."

My boyfriend explained that the system does not work like that and he should have signed in and declared his intention to play before he went out. The member was not happy at this and stated he didn't have time before the round but we pointed out he had been in and bought balls etc before he went out. My boyfriend told him to run it past the match secretary and if he was willing to accept the card then fair enough.

This rumbled on for a good few months and resulted in the shop supplying CCTV of the ball purchase plus my boyfriend being called in front of the club council to give his version of events.

The club backed up my boyfriend and didn't allow the score to be submitted.

I now believe that this system is extremely open to abuse so how can it be tightened up and how does your club run and monitor these supplementary rounds?

 

[rosecott]

We have a log in the proshop which must be countersigned by a staff member after checking on the time of the player's tee booking.

The guy was only cheating himself as there was clearly no prize money involved. There have been many debates here on players chasing vanity handicaps. The only good side to a player reducing his handicap by submitting supplementaries after the event is that he will have to live up to any "cheated" handicap when next in competition.

 

[fundy]

Ours is totally open to abuse, mainly as our handicap secretary operates on the rules from about 10 years ago. Have to be honest wasnt overly happy to hear my pairs partner be cut not once but twice based on stableford scores in the roll up (certainly not qualifying comp conditions) and certainly seems that cards are put in retrospectively, or worse, asked to be put in by the hcap secretary and/or other commmittee members

 

[Wendy]

I like that, think we could be "borrowing" that idea.


:thup:

 

[Wendy]

Ours is totally open to abuse, mainly as our handicap secretary operates on the rules from about 10 years ago. Have to be honest wasnt overly happy to hear my pairs partner be cut not once but twice based on stableford scores in the roll up (certainly not qualifying comp conditions) and certainly seems that cards are put in retrospectively, or worse, asked to be put in by the hcap secretary and/or other commmittee members

Totally agree. We were wondering how many false handicaps are out there because of this system. Not many clubs keep on top of the supplementary card rounds.

 

[Rumpokid]

Supplementary cards at our club are handed in for the handicap committee to deal with.Usually come from players playing in opens at other clubs,or even golfing trips.It is up to the integrity of the individual to hand the card in or go through correct protocols, whichever applies.

 

[rosecott]

Ours is totally open to abuse, mainly as our handicap secretary operates on the rules from about 10 years ago. Have to be honest wasnt overly happy to hear my pairs partner be cut not once but twice based on stableford scores in the roll up (certainly not qualifying comp conditions) and certainly seems that cards are put in retrospectively, or worse, asked to be put in by the hcap secretary and/or other commmittee members

If you have documented evidence and don't mind rocking the boat, you could pass it on to your County Union.

 

[rosecott]

Supplementary cards at our club are handed in for the handicap committee to deal with.Usually come from players playing in opens at other clubs,or even golfing trips.It is up to the integrity of the individual to hand the card in or go through correct protocols, whichever applies.

I think you are looking at other situations. Supplementaries can only be played at your Home Club.

 

[DCB]

Supplementary cards at our club are handed in for the handicap committee to deal with.Usually come from players playing in opens at other clubs,or even golfing trips.It is up to the integrity of the individual to hand the card in or go through correct protocols, whichever applies.

Those aren't Supplementary Cards. Away Comps, opens etc, should be recorded but golf trips and society events shouldn't be recorded.

 

[Rumpokid]

I think you are looking at other situations. Supplementaries can only be played at your Home Club.

Thanks for that.Stand corrected..Getting confused with additional cards..(i think)

 

[Foxholer]

You other half was absolutely correct!

It's Congu that specify how the Supplementary Card process works, not the Club.

Had the Match Secretary accepted the card, the Club is technically in breach of Congu Regs, so could lose the right to allocate handicaps!

Even in the old 'Rule 19' days, a single good non-competition score was not normally sufficient to justify a cut.

 

[virtuocity]

Is it really 'cheating' though? If I want to play off 4 at my next comp then I will simply enter '4' in the handicap box.

I do think that a huge amount of people don't have a clue about the rules surrounding supp cards.

 

[SGC001]

I think the powers that be may want to encourage people to stay in the game and provide an opportunity to maintain a handicap, similar to encouraging 9 hole comps and allowing for handicap allocations from 6 9 hole cards.

It's really down to the clubs to follow any guidelines and administer it properly, one club I used to play at didn't know anything about them and I've still not seen anything up for the members on the issue.

The downside is it provides an opportunity for people to get 10 0.1's back should they want them or get cut to become / remain eligible for certain events should they either be good enough to do so, or have a willing marker.

 

[Wendy]

Is it really 'cheating' though? If I want to play off 4 at my next comp then I will simply enter '4' in the handicap box.

I do think that a huge amount of people don't have a clue about the rules surrounding supp cards.

Explain that to me please?

If you go out and play 4 holes and find yourself 3 under par and then decide your going to play for handicap purposes without declaring it before you play and you don't think its cheating? Wish I had supplementary cards when I was still playing full time when I was younger if that's the current attitude!

 

[chellie]

How can you cheat when you've to sign that you are going to put in a supplemenatry card before you go out though

 

[Stuey01]

Explain that to me please?

If you go out and play 4 holes and find yourself 3 under par and then decide your going to play for handicap purposes without declaring it before you play and you don't think its cheating? Wish I had supplementary cards when I was still playing full time when I was younger if that's the current attitude!

Well, firstly, that's not allowed, the round has to be declared beforehand.
And even if it were, who exactly is being cheated by the person putting in hookey supplementaries? Not the field in the next comp as the person will be on a lower hcap than they otherwise would be. Only really cheating themselves...

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Simple to record and simple to police. Players must place their names in the supplementary score book before they go out, detailing their intention. This should then be signed for in the Pro Shop before they go out, to ensure that they don't enter the details after their round, having shot the lights out. Players should not be able to enter their own supp cards, they should be handed to Comps and Handicaps for checking and input. The Congu rules have changed this year for Cat 1 players, to reduce their supp card allocations.

 

[AmandaJR]

When I was handicap secretary at my previous club I had a parent come and give me a card his daughter had kept that day. It was a great score and he wanted to submit it as "general play"! He had asked the men's secretary who said it was fine and to give it to me on that basis. I asked whether she had signed prior to the round that it was going to be a supplementary and the answer was no so I replied it couldn't be submitted for handicap purposes. There is no doubt though that the men's secretry would have accepted it and I was pretty sure guys signed the book in the pro shop after the event of a good card as there was no checks and balances to prevent that happening. There were a few other dodgy decisions made by the same secretary and then at my club before that the secretary gave himself a 3 shot cut at the a/r despite going up 3 shots through the season and hitting buffer once only!

They only cheat themselves...I'd rather them cheat in that direction than inflate their handicap and win comps based upon it.

 

[chrisd]

Those aren't Supplementary Cards. Away Comps, opens etc, should be recorded but golf trips and society events shouldn't be recorded.

Mine wouldn't accept the cards that Mashleyr7 and I put in from H4H at West Hill as there was no CSS recorded and it wasn't a "qualifying comp" shame as we both are looking for a handicap cut where we can get one!

 

[Wendy]

When I was handicap secretary at my previous club I had a parent come and give me a card his daughter had kept that day. It was a great score and he wanted to submit it as "general play"! He had asked the men's secretary who said it was fine and to give it to me on that basis. I asked whether she had signed prior to the round that it was going to be a supplementary and the answer was no so I replied it couldn't be submitted for handicap purposes. There is no doubt though that the men's secretry would have accepted it and I was pretty sure guys signed the book in the pro shop after the event of a good card as there was no checks and balances to prevent that happening. There were a few other dodgy decisions made by the same secretary and then at my club before that the secretary gave himself a 3 shot cut at the a/r despite going up 3 shots through the season and hitting buffer once only!

They only cheat themselves...I'd rather them cheat in that direction than inflate their handicap and win comps based upon it.

That bit is wrong. Lets take County Championships or Scratch Opens for example. These competitions usually have a handicap limit. Someone who "cheats" by deciding half way through their round that they are playing well enough to get a score and subsequently get that score which cuts them to a certain handicap can stop valid handicap golfers getting a spot in that field.

Its not as simple as only cheating themselves.