Strokes gained - what does this actually mean?

[Deleted Member 1156]

I've heard this term mentioned many times and I know that the pro tours record every stat under the sun. But what does it actually mean to us amateurs? How can we record and compare (as I guess this is a necessity against other players?) if nobody else records their figures?

If I get up and down around the greens every time I've gained strokes against the field, right? But this means I've missed too many greens so I've lost shots against the field on that stat, right?

Totally confused...........

 

[Lump]

I've heard this term mentioned many times and I know that the pro tours record every stat under the sun. But what does it actually mean to us amateurs? How can we record and compare (as I guess this is a necessity against other players?) if nobody else records their figures?

If I get up and down around the greens every time I've gained strokes against the field, right? But this means I've missed too many greens so I've lost shots against the field on that stat, right?

Totally confused...........

Its basically just how much they have gained on the field (averaged out)in a given area.

 

[fundy]

in terms of meaning something to amateurs very little and almost impossible to do to any degree of accuracy, it only exists on the pga tour because they have detailed info of every shot of every player so that they can make detailed comparisons

easiest way to explain is with the putting. lets say you have a 6 foot putt which on average 50% will hole and 50% will miss. If you hole it you gain +0.5 in putting (and overall) strokes gained. If you miss you lose -0.5 in putting (and overall) strokes gained

based on the data they have they can determine an "average" for every shot and your shot is then compared to that to determine your strokes gained/lost

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

That makes a bit more sense, thanks Steve :thup:

 

[Roland]

My understanding is that it is 'Strokes gained versus a specific level of player'. The Tour pros do it against the average tour player. On myroundpro you get to choose to compare yourself against tour pro or scratch player. The strokes gained are then broken down into 4 areas (driving, approach, short game and putting) and you can see which part of your game is lacking the most.

 

[Region3]

Just to expand a bit on fundy's post, as I understand it.

From any lie and any distance (so could be 210 from rough, 435 from tee, 35 from sand etc) they have a stat for the average number of strokes to complete the hole from there. Call this value A.

You then hit the shot, and whatever lie and distance you have left the average number of strokes to complete the hole from there by the tour as a whole is value B.

To be bang on average, A - B = 1.

An example (with made up numbers):

From the tee on a 450yd hole the tour average is 4.05
You hit your tee shot in the fairway leaving 185yds. Tour average from there is 3.15, so you've "lost" 0.1 with your tee shot.
From the fairway you put it in a greenside bunker and have 12yds left. Tour average from there is 2.4, so you've lost another 0.25 of a stroke.
You hit the bunker shot to 3', tour average 1.05 thus gaining 0.35
You hole the put gaining another 0.05

Those 4 loss/gain numbers added together (-0.1 + -0.25 + 0.35 + 0.05) comes to 0.05, the difference between your score and tour average given at the beginning, but the individual numbers can be used to show how you are doing against 'tour average' for each part of your game.


I started doing this, but after a while only learnt that tour pro's are better putters than I am.

I'm sure I read somewhere of someone doing the same thing but compared against stats for various handicap levels which makes much more sense to me.

If you want to record these for yourself, all you need do is note down the distance and type of lie for each shot you play, then have access to the tour stats.
Alternatively there are websites (and I guess apps) that will work out the numbers for you once you've entered your data.

I hope that makes sense!

 

[Robobum]

Just to expand a bit on fundy's post, as I understand it.

From any lie and any distance (so could be 210 from rough, 435 from tee, 35 from sand etc) they have a stat for the average number of strokes to complete the hole from there. Call this value A.

You then hit the shot, and whatever lie and distance you have left the average number of strokes to complete the hole from there by the tour as a whole is value B.

To be bang on average, A - B = 1.

An example (with made up numbers):

From the tee on a 450yd hole the tour average is 4.05
You hit your tee shot in the fairway leaving 185yds. Tour average from there is 3.15, so you've "lost" 0.1 with your tee shot.
From the fairway you put it in a greenside bunker and have 12yds left. Tour average from there is 2.4, so you've lost another 0.25 of a stroke.
You hit the bunker shot to 3', tour average 1.05 thus gaining 0.35
You hole the put gaining another 0.05

Those 4 loss/gain numbers added together (-0.1 + -0.25 + 0.35 + 0.05) comes to 0.05, the difference between your score and tour average given at the beginning, but the individual numbers can be used to show how you are doing against 'tour average' for each part of your game.


I started doing this, but after a while only learnt that tour pro's are better putters than I am.

I'm sure I read somewhere of someone doing the same thing but compared against stats for various handicap levels which makes much more sense to me.

If you want to record these for yourself, all you need do is note down the distance and type of lie for each shot you play, then have access to the tour stats.
Alternatively there are websites (and I guess apps) that will work out the numbers for you once you've entered your data.

I hope that makes sense!

April fool?

Ouch my head hurts

 

[FairwayDodger]

Game golf seems to do it, against a scratch golfer, I think?

However, based on my figures it looks like it needs to be renamed to "strokes lost"

 

[Region3]

April fool?

Ouch my head hurts

This is what happens when you ask a question to somebody who likes golf, reading and numbers.

 

[Region3]

Game golf seems to do it, against a scratch golfer, I think?

However, based on my figures it looks like it needs to be renamed to "strokes lost"

You think that's demoralising, I was comparing mine for a while to tour pro's.

Add together all the expected scores from the tees on the courses we play and it comes to somewhere around 67.

"3 over par Gaz, nice round. By the way you lost 8 strokes! according to our website"

 

[3565]

You think that's demoralising, I was comparing mine for a while to tour pro's.

Add together all the expected scores from the tees on the courses we play and it comes to somewhere around 67.

"3 over par Gaz, nice round. By the way you lost 8 strokes! according to our website"

Yeah totally agree with you on this, I shot a 1 under gross round to be told that comparing to the PGA tour and the stats Mark Broadie collated I was 3.4 shots worse off....... It kind of puts it into perspective how ordinary we are even if your a Cat1 player.
It would be better and helpful if they could get the stats for a scratch player for cat 1's to aim/compare to, then stats on 5hc for cat 2's to do the same and so forth. But realistically this won't happen unless all golfers submit their round details in strokes gained format and posted to a web site to collate the numbers, but the problem with that is all distances need to be recorded from any point on the course until you pick the ball out. And that won't happen as it takes time.

 

[Hobbit]

My version is quite simple - it has to be for me. Every birdie I make is a stroke gained. For example, if I par the first two holes, and then birdie the third I now have six shots to play with, not five which is my handicap. I've gained one. And if after ten holes I'm four over and birdie two holes I don't have one shot left, I have three. I've gained two.

 

[turkish]

Was just about to say what Hobbit said- can also be strokes gained vs your own personal averages but it could be quite hard to compute. For example if you have played 100 rounds of the same hole at an average of 4.8 by playing driver as a constant. And you decided to try and change it for the next 100 rounds with 3 wood as a constant and found that you had an average of 4.3 then you would have gained a half stroke on that particular hole by using 3 wood. Although it would still be meaningful as over 200 rounds of golf there are so many variables that factor in like wind, temp, run, strike but assuming all these factors even themselves out it would still be meaningful.

Could be used for loads of parts of the game GIR, etc but think you would literally need 100's of rounds to have meaningful data by which time you could be 85 yards old and driving 120 yards

Would also need to be a mathemetician to decode why some holes are good and why bad as we rarely keep everything at a constant in golf.

 

[UlyssesSky]

Game golf seems to do it, against a scratch golfer, I think?

However, based on my figures it looks like it needs to be renamed to "strokes lost"

You are right with the second part - GG actually records 'strokes' lost, i.e. while in the PGA's stats a positive number means that player has gained shots on the field, a positive number in GG's strokes gained means you're losing strokes to the referenced level.

The first part is only partially right, though - you can chose your reference group from one of the following levels: scratch, 5 HCP, 10 HCP, 15 HCP, 20 HCP and 25 HCP.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Just to expand a bit on fundy's post, as I understand it.

From any lie and any distance (so could be 210 from rough, 435 from tee, 35 from sand etc) they have a stat for the average number of strokes to complete the hole from there. Call this value A.

You then hit the shot, and whatever lie and distance you have left the average number of strokes to complete the hole from there by the tour as a whole is value B.

To be bang on average, A - B = 1.

An example (with made up numbers):

From the tee on a 450yd hole the tour average is 4.05
You hit your tee shot in the fairway leaving 185yds. Tour average from there is 3.15, so you've "lost" 0.1 with your tee shot.
From the fairway you put it in a greenside bunker and have 12yds left. Tour average from there is 2.4, so you've lost another 0.25 of a stroke.
You hit the bunker shot to 3', tour average 1.05 thus gaining 0.35
You hole the put gaining another 0.05

Those 4 loss/gain numbers added together (-0.1 + -0.25 + 0.35 + 0.05) comes to 0.05, the difference between your score and tour average given at the beginning, but the individual numbers can be used to show how you are doing against 'tour average' for each part of your game.


I started doing this, but after a while only learnt that tour pro's are better putters than I am.

I'm sure I read somewhere of someone doing the same thing but compared against stats for various handicap levels which makes much more sense to me.

If you want to record these for yourself, all you need do is note down the distance and type of lie for each shot you play, then have access to the tour stats.
Alternatively there are websites (and I guess apps) that will work out the numbers for you once you've entered your data.

I hope that makes sense!

Pro version :thup:

My version is quite simple - it has to be for me. Every birdie I make is a stroke gained. For example, if I par the first two holes, and then birdie the third I now have six shots to play with, not five which is my handicap. I've gained one. And if after ten holes I'm four over and birdie two holes I don't have one shot left, I have three. I've gained two.

Amateur version :thup:

Gary, any objections if I go with Brian's version? My brain is quite a simple thing

 

[Region3]

Pro version :thup:



Amateur version :thup:

Gary, any objections if I go with Brian's version? My brain is quite a simple thing

No problem, provided I'm in the first Sunningdale meet.

 

[delc]

I get some stats for my golf from Howdidido. My Greens in Regulation is less than 30% and seems to getting worse as I am getting older, but this is to be expected as there are more greens I can no longer reach in regulation. My stroke average over par is worst for par-4's, but this probably reflects the fact that our course has some fairly tough par-4's. My average number of putts per green is 1.9 (about 34 putts per round). My average score for the last 12 months is 88.6, which is a slight improvement over my long term average of 89.0, and my handicap is 12. My short game is probably not as bad as I think it is, because I have been able to maintain about the same sort of handicap for quite a few years, despite ever declining length!