Standing close to hole to get a read of the break

[dufferman]

Next year my brother and law and I are entering into some Daily Mail pairs comp thingy. I need to know if what I'm doing is OK before I get pulled up on it in a proper, outside of my home club comp.

I use aimpoint. As much as it works, I often find the final two or three foot of a putt ends up taking a break I hadn't seen. So I have recently found myself standing as close to the hole as I can, with the hole between me and my ball (being considerate of my FC's line of course) standing with my feet shoulders width apart, to gauge if there is a break at the hole.

Is this legal? I'm not straddling the line of the putt as I am on the opposite side of the hole. It makes sense that it is ok, but I don't want to assume this and get pulled up on it mid comp.

Thanks in advance.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

How close is 'as close to the hole as I can'

If I was an opponent of yours and you stood very close to the hole - and hence could well make an impression in the green that could affect my putting - and not necessarily my next putt - I might not be overly impressed. When I pick my ball out of the hole I try and stand as far from the hole as I can to avoid that. But I'm guessing that there is nothing stopping you doing it - other than perhaps etiquette,

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Pretty sure in discussion with Jamie Donaldson when I did the Aimpoint Express, providing you are straddling the intended line (and sufficiently wide to account for any break, this was perfectly legal. I would suggest measuring the putt from beyond the hole isn't relevant to the putt and you need to do it ball side only

 

[Fyldewhite]

I'm struggling a little with what you are meaning but you can stand anywhere you like to look at the line of the putt except on the line of your putt. As above, "very near to the hole" is probably going to be on somebody's line, if not your own if you miss, so is poor etiquette and your opponents would be justified in asking you not to do this.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have to agree with the others that at best it wouldn't be best etiquette and I see no reason why you'd want to take the read from close to the hole (and certainly not from beyond it. In the aimpoint course it was explained how to break long putts down into different segments and take the reads

Taken from Jamie Donaldson's notes from the course

On single breaking putts longer than 6 feet, we always get the biggest slope value in the middle section of the putt rather than at the ball. This is because the slope can begin to change on longer putts and the middle section has the biggest influence on the overall break. We also move our hand so that it is aligned with the centre of the hole rather than the lower edge.
Begin behind the ball to feel the low side of the putt.

Walk on the low side of the putt and check the slope 1/3 and 2/3 of the way to the hole. Use the biggest value. Align you hand to the centre of the hole.

 

[DCB]

Obviously this is a summer only routine .... there's not enough daylight to get the round finished if you do this in winter

Surely a quick walk towards the hole will tell you what you need to know if there's a slope on the green.

 

[Foxholer]

If the break is consistent before and after the hole, then there can be no issue with you 'measuring' the break after the hole - as the 'line-of-putt' stops at the hole!

 

[dufferman]

Thank you all for responses.

No, I am not standing so near it would effect FC's putts.

Here's a drawing from that cool tool online I saw in another thread: http://sketchtoy.com/67686815

I understand the Aimpoint technique, and how the break changes through a longer putt so reading should be taken at 1/2 or 1/4, 1/2 & 3/4 etc, however, I've just found the occasional putt track all the way to the last 2 or 3 foot then drop off left or right, even when the ball has been hot hard enough to get to the hole / not die at the hole. I've found that, taking a read from the other side of the hole as close to the hole as possible, *sometimes* gives a little insight as to what the ball will do at the hole. It genuinely has help make a few putts / leave a few putts for a tap in rather than a longer 2nd putt.

 

[chrisd]

I did Aimpoint pretty recently and don't remember Jamie Donaldson suggesting to stand in that position to read any putt. He only took readings on longer putts in the way Homer said it on the low side at intervals, and to ensure he didn't stand on his line he walked with his putter pointing out his "intended line"

 

[rulefan]

First, the OP only has a potential etiquette problem. It isn't a breach as the line of putt doesn't extend beyond the hole.

However, referees (particularly in the amateur game) are getting concerned about the technique of straddling. Many players are getting precariously close (inside 6" say).

One thing puzzles me though. If the player needs to use this technique, how can they know their line of putt until after they have done the straddling ?
If an eyeball estimate gives a break of 18" but aimpoint suggests 12", wouldn't their foot be on the 12" line? (If you see what I mean).

 

[chrisd]

First, the OP only has a potential etiquette problem. It isn't a breach as the line of putt doesn't extend beyond the hole.

However, referees (particularly in the amateur game) are getting concerned about the technique of straddling. Many players are getting precariously close (inside 6" say).

One thing puzzles me though. If the player needs to use this technique, how can they know their line of putt until after they have done the straddling ?
If an eyeball estimate gives a break of 18" but aimpoint suggests 12", wouldn't their foot be on the 12" line? (If you see what I mean).

I remember Jamie Donaldson saying that you can't walk on your "intended line of the putt" but that no one can know what that is other than the player and, as said earlier,
he walks with his putter handle pointing to that line

 

[KenL]

How long does this process take?

I doubt I would like to be waiting my turn if this was taking you longer than most amateurs find necessary.

 

[rulefan]

he walks with his putter handle pointing to that line

If he is indicating the line with his putter why is he walking astride it and using aimpoint. Will it tell him something different? If not, why bother? If it does, he couldn't have been pointing at his line.

 

[rulefan]

How long does this process take?

I doubt I would like to be waiting my turn if this was taking you longer than most amateurs find necessary.

The only player I have had to warn under the new R&A 60 second timing was using what he said was aimpoint.

 

[guest100718]

The only player I have had to warn under the new R&A 60 second timing was using what he said was aimpoint.

It does look an almighty faff

 

[HomerJSimpson]

First, the OP only has a potential etiquette problem. It isn't a breach as the line of putt doesn't extend beyond the hole.

However, referees (particularly in the amateur game) are getting concerned about the technique of straddling. Many players are getting precariously close (inside 6" say).

One thing puzzles me though. If the player needs to use this technique, how can they know their line of putt until after they have done the straddling ?
If an eyeball estimate gives a break of 18" but aimpoint suggests 12", wouldn't their foot be on the 12" line? (If you see what I mean).

It is recommended that the line is only straddled inside 6 feet and so it's relatively simple to stand astride without getting on the line. Even then, Jamie has said the read can be taken with the feet at the ball and only straddle the line if the percentage is over 2%. After 6 feet you are suppose to read at the mid point until around 15-20 feet and then split in into a third or quarter and take the largest percentage break as the read. The thing is, it's not a guarantee to one putt but if done properly will reduce the number of three putts by getting the first one on a better line (assuming pace isn't an issue). If done properly, a read even on a long put should only take 15-20 seconds to do. There's masses on here about speed of play and I'm not prepared to go over it on this thread as it's not relevant to the OP.

 

[MadAdey]

I know you do not think you are standing on someones line, but if I take my putt, knock it 12" past then have the pleasure of coming back through your foot print I'm going to get pretty P@@@@@ off. Not sure just how close you are talking about, but if everyone starts doing this then that hole is going to be wrecked after a couple of hours.

 

[rulefan]

It is recommended that the line is only straddled inside 6 feet and so it's relatively simple to stand astride without getting on the line. Even then, Jamie has said the read can be taken with the feet at the ball and only straddle the line if the percentage is over 2%. After 6 feet you are suppose to read at the mid point until around 15-20 feet and then split in into a third or quarter and take the largest percentage break as the read. The thing is, it's not a guarantee to one putt but if done properly will reduce the number of three putts by getting the first one on a better line (assuming pace isn't an issue). If done properly, a read even on a long put should only take 15-20 seconds to do. There's masses on here about speed of play and I'm not prepared to go over it on this thread as it's not relevant to the OP.

Thanks for the info.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I know you do not think you are standing on someones line, but if I take my putt, knock it 12" past then have the pleasure of coming back through your foot print I'm going to get pretty P@@@@@ off. Not sure just how close you are talking about, but if everyone starts doing this then that hole is going to be wrecked after a couple of hours.

This^^^ is what I was thinking. Is it then OK that I stand very close to the hole when retrieving my ball after holing out - with my opponent or FC still to putt? I don't think so. And the 'well not many use the aimpoint technique so it won't matter' argument doesn't hold water for me.

 

[chrisd]

I don't remember anything on the course about standing close to the hole. I see people circling the hole looking from all directions - who tells them off? I take seconds on most reads and certainly no longer than most players. At my place I rarely use the fingers ala Adam Scott as our greens are fairly flat and quite small.