Stableford - helping playing partner

[nicknickster]

I was playing in a 4-ball betterball last week with Stableford scoring on 3/4 handicap.

On one hole I was on the green in two but my partner had a disaster and was virtually next to my ball but slightly closer to the hole in 6 so he couldn't score.

Without us agreeing anything he walked up announced he would play first (my ball was furthest from the hole of the 4) and hit his putt which had the benefit of showing me the perfect line. Our fellow competitors started protesting that he shouldn't have played his shot as he was incapable of scoring and the only benefit of him taking his shot was to show me the line and under "the rules" he should have just picked up.

I can't find anything in the rules that says that in a Stableford competition you can't carry on playing each hole until you hole out even though you can't score (I appreciate etiquette on speed of play would suggest you should pick up as soon as you can).

Any comments?

 

[DCB]

Sound OK to me, assuming it was your turn to putt. Team mate can putt first if you want.

 

[pbrown7582]

No problem your team mate playing 1st when it's your sides turn to play

Maybe issues if you deliberately stood behind the line.

 

[rulefan]

I was playing in a 4-ball betterball last week with Stableford scoring on 3/4 handicap.

On one hole I was on the green in two but my partner had a disaster and was virtually next to my ball but slightly closer to the hole in 6 so he couldn't score.

Without us agreeing anything he walked up announced he would play first (my ball was furthest from the hole of the 4) and hit his putt which had the benefit of showing me the perfect line. Our fellow competitors started protesting that he shouldn't have played his shot as he was incapable of scoring and the only benefit of him taking his shot was to show me the line and under "the rules" he should have just picked up.

I can't find anything in the rules that says that in a Stableford competition you can't carry on playing each hole until you hole out even though you can't score (I appreciate etiquette on speed of play would suggest you should pick up as soon as you can).

Any comments?

Your opponents could have conceded his putt. If he had then played it and as a result shown you the line, then you would have been DQd for the hole.

[h=2]2-4/6[/h][h=4]Putting Out After Concession of Stroke[/h]Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole.

 

[fundy]

Your opponents could have conceded his putt. If he had then played it and as a result shown you the line, then you would have been DQd for the hole.

[h=2]2-4/6[/h][h=4]Putting Out After Concession of Stroke[/h]Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole.

How can they concede a putt in a strokeplay comp?

 

[chrisd]

Your opponents could have conceded his putt. If he had then played it and as a result shown you the line, then you would have been DQd for the hole.

[h=2]2-4/6[/h][h=4]Putting Out After Concession of Stroke[/h]Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole.

I had exactly the same situation in a 4bbb final a couple of years ago and pointed out after the hole was finished that they only needed to concede his putt but claiming he couldn't putt wasn't a concession. They wern't amused but chucked more than one spurious rule at us - lucky we had a referee tn confirm things

 

[Foxholer]

How can they concede a putt in a strokeplay comp?

Easily - they just say 'that putt's conceded'!

And they are acting in the interests of the rest of the field - including themselves.

By not conceding the putt, they are actually, neglectfully, acting against the interests of the rest of the field - including themselves!

 

[rulefan]

How can they concede a putt in a strokeplay comp?

They can't but the OP simply asked for comments.

 

[Colin L]

Back to Stableford/strokeplay

As already said, there is no rule to stop a partner playing first even if he cannot score any points.

It would be more than maybe an issue if the player stood behind him to watch the line: the partner would be in breach of Rule 14-2b and because by standing there, the player would be assisted in his play, the side would be disqualified from the hole, not just the partner. (See Rule 30-3f)

 

[fundy]

Easily - they just say 'that putt's conceded'!

And they are acting in the interests of the rest of the field - including themselves.

By not conceding the putt, they are actually, neglectfully, acting against the interests of the rest of the field - including themselves!

utter tripe, they have no ability to concede the putt

 

[williamalex1]

As long as you don't stand directly behind the line of your pps putt , it's ok i think???

 

[rulefan]

It is.

 

[Foxholer]

utter tripe, they have no ability to concede the putt

Apparently so! Doh!

The couple of times I've been in this situation - years ago - it's been a Conditions of Comp item to allow such concession, because of exactly this circumstance. Probably an invalid TofC, but not questioned because of the 'logic'!

 

[ScienceBoy]

I have never had an issue with people playing out of turn if on the same team. Just as long as normal putting etiquette is applied.

The advantage can work both ways, sometimes it puts a lot of pressure on the person to hole for the score that might come back to haunt them later in the round (if early on). Team golf is 10% more mental than normal golf, which is just 90% mental and 10% mental.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Was it a match? If it was a match then your opponents can concede you your shot at any time and you can't then play it if it is deemed to help your partner. If it was a pairs stableford and not a match then they can't concede. Order of play in a pairing - match or not a match - is irrelevant.

 

[duncan mackie]

Any comments?

31-4/2 (covering BB strokeplay) a confirms that the overall practice is acceptable

32 (covering stableford) does not require a player who 'can't score' to pick up

30-3f/6 confirms that if the player had deliberately manipulated the situation penalties would apply (2 strokes each)

or, put another way, no issues with it as presented.

 

[CMAC]

quite amazing how some people believe incredible and non-sense 'rules'. Where do they get this 'knowledge'? hearsay down the years or are they just plain thick I wonder.

If they could hear themselves utter the 'rule' they might then see how ridiculous it sounds.

 

[duncan mackie]

quite amazing how some people believe incredible and non-sense 'rules'. Where do they get this 'knowledge'? hearsay down the years or are they just plain thick I wonder.

If they could hear themselves utter the 'rule' they might then see how ridiculous it sounds.

I would have had more sympathy with this view before this mornings rules query from an ex professional after such a discourse during a match over the weekend.

The apparently non-sense and incredible rule raised was perfectly correct - although as it wasn't raised in a correct manner there was no implication to the match result.

My point is simply that incredible and nonsensical aren't appropriate measures by which to assess whether a rule is ridiculous, or applicable

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

30-3f/6 confirms that if the player had deliberately manipulated the situation penalties would apply (2 strokes each)

As in I have a tricky putt and still in it, but my PP is out of it though on the green. So my PP putts to a point very close to my ball or marker - and putts from there to show me the line. Extreme - maybe - but if it were allowed some unscrupulous devil would do it.

 

[nicknickster]

Thank-you. That is what i thought but i needed the rule references to back it up.

One thing is clear with the above (and what they person i was arguing with thought) was that many people seem to treat Stableford as matchplay when it is actually strokeplay. As you don't have to calculate your own Satbleford score (but just note your strokes and let the committee calculate it) then you can't be responsible for knowing that you cannot score on a hole, so you cannot logically be obliged to pick up just because you get to zero.

I appreciate you CAN pick up in Stableford and you get zero, but I am pleased you clarified the rule that you don't have to pick up. If you are therefore playing with a partner then I agree that as long as you haven't agreed to do this or discuss it, then your partner being capable of only scoring zero can quite rightly decide to putt out.

Thanks everyone.