Sporting Integrity

[inthecup]

Played in a doubles match today at a course we've never played before. We both had a GPS device but obviously didn't know correct lines off the tee and hazard positions etc.

The first few holes were straight forward but after that loads of blind tee shots. The problem was our opponents were very reluctant to give out any information if at all even after being asked! I asked at 1 hole (blind tee shot) "what's the line"to be told straight over the pole. I hit a good drive in the right direction, told its fine only to walk over the hill and find a mound of rough (heavy stuff) about 260 from the tee and my ball sitting right in the edge of it. This happened another 2 times with one hole which had a straight drop 240 from the tee that was just thick rough.

Also between my parter and I about 6 times when we hit a dubious shot and not knowing whether it was safe or not we would ask "is that ok" to be told "I don't know I never seen it" despite standing 5 yards behind us.

It made my blood boil and no way were we getting beat. My partner holed a good putt on the 17th to win 2&1. My question to you is, do you think these guys attitudes is bordering on cheating? I always thought golf was a gentlemans game and always let people know the lie of the land if they've never played my course before.

Rant over!

 

[IanG]

Not quite cheating but certainly bad form in my opinion.

 

[3PuttCharlie]

Poor etiquette for sure...

I think info should be offered about the layout of the hole and any dangers pointed out...unless you prefer not to hear it.

but what about some course subtleties which is effectively 'local knowledge' and to the home team advantage - where do you draw the line?

I'm glad you won

 

[Fader]

Played in a doubles match today at a course we've never played before. We both had a GPS device but obviously didn't know correct lines off the tee and hazard positions etc.

The first few holes were straight forward but after that loads of blind tee shots. The problem was our opponents were very reluctant to give out any information if at all even after being asked! I asked at 1 hole (blind tee shot) "what's the line"to be told straight over the pole. I hit a good drive in the right direction, told its fine only to walk over the hill and find a mound of rough (heavy stuff) about 260 from the tee and my ball sitting right in the edge of it. This happened another 2 times with one hole which had a straight drop 240 from the tee that was just thick rough.

Also between my parter and I about 6 times when we hit a dubious shot and not knowing whether it was safe or not we would ask "is that ok" to be told "I don't know I never seen it" despite standing 5 yards behind us.

It made my blood boil and no way were we getting beat. My partner holed a good putt on the 17th to win 2&1. My question to you is, do you think these guys attitudes is bordering on cheating? I always thought golf was a gentlemans game and always let people know the lie of the land if they've never played my course before.

Rant over!

Nope no way near bordering on cheating, unsporting and not gentlemanly perhaps but nowhere near cheating.

They don't have to oblige you with the information thought it is generally given by most people. That's why I always buy a course planner just incase this sort of thing happens which it has in the past.

The other of looking at it is maybe they didn't realise you could reach the long stuff on the line they did give you!

 

[My_HarrisTweed_Cap]

Two can play that game. Walk up the fairway and look, take extra time and explain that since they are being such ..... that you need to check out for yourself.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Played a team match last year at Merchants of Edinburgh. It's not a course I enjoy so haven't played it much and it has a few blind tee shots. My opponent that day couldn't have done more to explain the layout on each hole, very sporting indeed! Much appreciated and definitely the spirit the game should be played in!

 

[CMAC]

Of course it's not bordering on cheating- lets say they told you about all the issues on each hole and filled your head with all the dangers then you hit it there........is it because its in your head?

Last 'visitors' we played against I said on the 1st tee that I'll happily answer any questions they have about any hole should they wish, rather than me 'force' my views on them about best line or watch for the sloped fairway etc etc

Remember it was also a match and they have home advantage

 

[chrisd]

I played in a HDID 4bbb knockout on Saturday. My partner and I did a practise round on thir course on Wed but our opponents offered whatever info about the holes we wanted.

 

[inthecup]

Of course it's not bordering on cheating- lets say they told you about all the issues on each hole and filled your head with all the dangers then you hit it there........is it because its in your head?

Last 'visitors' we played against I said on the 1st tee that I'll happily answer any questions they have about any hole should they wish, rather than me 'force' my views on them about best line or watch for the sloped fairway etc etc

Remember it was also a match and they have home advantage

Yes they did have home advantage but home advantage to me is, ill take 1 club less and let it run down the hill or land it left and let the contours take it etc. Not blatantly let someone hit it in the sh*t and not watch where there balls are going.

Ill always explain the basics of a hole on the tee and answer any other questions if asked.

 

[Fader]

I played in a HDID 4bbb knockout on Saturday. My partner and I did a practise round on thir course on Wed but our opponents offered whatever info about the holes we wanted.

Did they offer to show you where to hide from all the incoming little white, occasionally yellow or orange bombs that come at you unannounced!

Oh and how did you do?

 

[Spark.]

Only bit i disagree with what they did was not tell you if the ball will be in a good lie/findable, meaning you would have to come all the way back to the tee if you hadn't played a prov.

 

[chrisd]

Did they offer to show you where to hide from all the incoming little white, occasionally yellow or orange bombs that come at you unannounced!

Oh and how did you do?

We lost 1 down

The course was farcical, balls crashing round us, people talking and moving whilst we played and it was so slow. The course seemed to be two extremes, decent members or beginners. Our opponents couldn't have been more gentlemanly, they were good for their handicaps but never bandits, always said and did the right thing but home advantage was crucial. Their wilder shots would have been much more severely punished at my place and its a shame that they were playing their 3rd consecutive home draw but then it would have been 3 in a row for us too. We enjoyed a drink with them afterwards but would have thought that there would be better clubs for these guys to play at in the area (Sittingbourne say)

 

[inthecup]

I played a provisional every time i was in any doubt because of this! On one occasion they said my ball was fine when it had gone OOB.

 

[Fader]

We lost 1 down

The course was farcical, balls crashing round us, people talking and moving whilst we played and it was so slow. The course seemed to be two extremes, decent members or beginners. Our opponents couldn't have been more gentlemanly, they were good for their handicaps but never bandits, always said and did the right thing but home advantage was crucial. Their wilder shots would have been much more severely punished at my place and its a shame that they were playing their 3rd consecutive home draw but then it would have been 3 in a row for us too. We enjoyed a drink with them afterwards but would have thought that there would be better clubs for these guys to play at in the area (Sittingbourne say)

You now know my reasons for refusing to ever return there... Its a ridiculously dangerous place to be as there is incoming and cross overs coming from everywhere and in some instances all at once... Be surprised if anyone that plays an away game there gets more than a half severe home advantage there and I can't even think of any real standout holes there.

Much better clubs in the area Sittingbourne, even the likes of Sheerness or Gillingham up the road.

 

[brendy]

I played a provisional every time i was in any doubt because of this! On one occasion they said my ball was fine when it had gone OOB.

You really should have had a scout round the course at the very least beforehand matey.

 

[Foxholer]

I played on a course where front 9 blind shots on every par 4/5 hole - Whitekirk. Definite 'home advantage'!

I carried a course guide and offered to show line or answer questions.

Those guys just seemed like an unfriendly pair of bozos!

 

[pbrown7582]

Seems you came across a pair that wanted to win at all costs, not cheating but IMO would say unsporting, they haven't done anything technically wrong but not the way most of us wish to play, and can leave a sour taste as it obviously has with the OP.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Two can play that game. Walk up the fairway and look, take extra time and explain that since they are being such ..... that you need to check out for yourself.

I agree with this, turn it around on them :thup:

 

[Moff]

I was the playing parter for inthecup for this tie and thought I would add my tuppence worth.

At the outset we were told that any questions we had relating to the course we just had we were had just to ask and they would answer best they could. This started out to be the case but as the went a few down early on they noticeably started to clam up, fair enough, up to them but if you offer to inform the opposition be consistent or don't offer.

As inthecup stated the more annoying and obvious "gamesmanship" was never seeing where any of our tee/approach shots went. The more annoying and verging on cheating part of the match was one at least two occasions they stated that a wayward tee shot would be be fine yet when we got to where the ball went it was very heavy rough in the first instance and the other incident one whole side just off the fairway was out of bounds markers - on reaching the area where the ball had landed it became apparent that the ball had clearly crossed the boundary despite being told it should be ok.

On both occasions despite them stating that the ball should be findable/playable we hit provisionals as we could no longer trust what they said regarding off line tee shots. They had to be called back though as they started scampering down the fairway as soon as we went into our bags to get a reload.

The second incident I describe is verging on cheating - telling what you know is an untruth to gain an advantage.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

The problem was our opponents were very reluctant to give out any information if at all even after being asked! I asked at 1 hole (blind tee shot) "what's the line"to be told straight over the pole. I hit a good drive in the right direction, told its fine only to walk over the hill and find a mound of rough (heavy stuff) about 260 from the tee and my ball sitting right in the edge of it. This happened another 2 times with one hole which had a straight drop 240 from the tee that was just thick rough.

Also between my parter and I about 6 times when we hit a dubious shot and not knowing whether it was safe or not we would ask "is that ok" to be told "I don't know I never seen it" despite standing 5 yards behind us.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see this issue.

1. You're playing in a competition and you want your opponents to give you lines and tell you where to hit the ball? I'm sorry, but I'd never expect to be helped around the course in a competitive round.

2. the guys are standing behind you and you and your partner don't see where your ball goes, yet you expect them to have seen it better than the both of you?

I understand that their actions riled you and you responded in the right way, by playing well and winning the game..... but IMO it's a bit of a mountain out of a molehill.

In my first ever match play comp the guy was trying to play all kinds of mind games with me....getting to tees first, standing there with driver when it was only a short par 4 etc.....it's part of the game and its how you deal with these situations.