Speeding it up - the R&A Manual

[rulefan]

Interesting and challenging (to some) comments.

....... management practices, course set up and player behaviour all combine to cause issues with pace of play. The common misconception is that players are the sole cause. The reality is that many of the barriers to playing at a good pace are in place long before players themselves have a negative impact.
Providing insufficient time between groups teeing off, leading to overcrowding of the course and waiting, is a common management practice that can mean that rounds are doomed to take longer than most players would like.
Courses are often set up or designed to be too difficult for the majority of golfers that play them. A lack of teeing options to cater for the differences in player hitting distances, rough near to the fairway in which balls can frequently be lost or excessive green speeds or green firmness are just some examples of course features than can cause excessive delays and round times.
Individual players can, of course, have a negative effect on pace of play, but that effect may be relatively insignificant when compared to the impact that poor management practices and ill-considered course set up can have.

 

[Slab]

Agree 100% with the sentiment

And amazed how little I read about pressure being put on the club by members preferring instead to vent against the guy marking his card on the green

Maybe it does happen and just not really mentioned on the forum etc but as I mentioned in the other thread about 2/3rds of the causes of slow play are only controllable by club/course but the guy trotting back to his bag at the entrance to the green is the only one in for a lynching

 

[USER1999]

I commented to a cat 1 golfer last night that I thought 6 inch deep rough two feet off the fairway was a tad daft. Especially given how stupidly narrow the fairways are.
His reply?
Rough needs to be rough. Going in it is poor course management, and should carry a penalty. I mentioned slow play, and he wasn't interested. Just waffled on about handicaps and course management. Idiot.

 

[rksquire]

I commented to a cat 1 golfer last night that I thought 6 inch deep rough two feet off the fairway was a tad daft. Especially given how stupidly narrow the fairways are.
His reply?
Rough needs to be rough. Going in it is poor course management, and should carry a penalty. I mentioned slow play, and he wasn't interested. Just waffled on about handicaps and course management. Idiot.

Couldn't agree more. Course set-up can dictate pace of play during competitions. Played with a h/cap 28 at a society outing at an excellent course - he lost one ball in the water and that was it. Had he played my home course last weekend he would easy have lost 7 or 8 given where he hit them, and spent all that time looking for them. Rough can be penal without being ridiculous.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Clubs can do a lot with setup up the course, cutting rough under trees and encouraging playing off ability specific tees.

Throw in bail out areas and tees which take out big carries and play will move closer to the ideal.

Golf should be about hitting a ball, finding it and hitting again. Course management needs those bail out areas and suitable tees.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Is course setup any different now to 30 years ago? 3-3.5hr rounds were the norm back then now it is 4-4.5hrs.

Maybe course setup is a factor but I firmly believe most of it is down to individuals.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I played a course a couple of years ago in our area where the greens committee had changed and low handicap players were now in the majority. One of their first decisions had been to let the rough grow out to be long and thick. There was only a first cut of 6ft max before it got really deep.

The members I was playing with said that if you hit your ball into the rough - even if it just rolled in - you better play a provisional as you won't find it.

The average medal round had been extended from 3h 45m to 4h 15m as a result.

I understand the desire to play a course that is a "good test of golf" but this course is on the coast and the wind provided all the test you need without making it like a US Open track.

Last time I checked the average handicap was in the high teens so why make the courses too hard to be enjoyed by the majority.

I accept we can all play faster but course setup is a factor.

 

[delc]

I generally agree with keeping the rough reasonably short. Many courses seem to think that because some Open Championship courses have deep rough, they have to follow suit. Problem is that on ordinary courses there are no marshals, ball spotters or spectators to find golfer's balls for them. Hence it can really slow down play when they hit their shots into the hay and have to search for them.

 

[ScienceBoy]

It's also clubs not knowing their customers.

Clubs want to be the best test of golf in the area, fine if your members need that.

For a club trying to attract societies or has a large percentage of non-single figure members then it's probably not the best approach.

Most golfers find the game testing as it is without courses adding difficulty on top unnecessarily.

Understand your members, understand your customers, current and potential.

 

[jamielaing]

I've got to say that these things come down to a number of factors.

Slow play- people not playing smart- provisionals etc, the development of pre shot routines meaning everyone stands over the ball for an hour and my personal favourite- people not letting groups play through- I don't understand it, why would you want someone playing right behind you the whole round?

Club management- Tee times cause issues- on a weekend day the tee is booked up and you are already running late for one reason or another. Course set up- I personally feel it should be hard to lose a ball in club golf (unless you go OB). Rough should affect your next shot, trees should penalise you but I hate playing and the ball goes in the rough 10 feet from the fairway and you lose it due to badly managed courses.

But at the same token, go in to a game of golf with a 'it is what it is' mentality. Golf takes around 4 hours. Enjoy the time. Don't worry about how long it's going to take. Someone wrote on here recently that things take longer at the weekend (going to the shops etc), because they are busier. Why should golf be any different?

 

[chrisd]

My course is heavily tree lined and quite tight. Last year they used common sense and kept the rough shorter so it was easier to find a ball, the branches were cut so a player could get to a ball, it still cost at least a shot to get back into open play but the pace of play was certainly better.

 

[SugarPenguin]

My course is heavily tree lined and quite tight. Last year they used common sense and kept the rough shorter so it was easier to find a ball, the branches were cut so a player could get to a ball, it still cost at least a shot to get back into open play but the pace of play was certainly better.

I like that makes a lot of sense

courses without trees though surely have to have the rough thicker to make it punishing though.
Its tough balancing act.
Whatever the case it's a losing battle. All it needs is a couple of slow players on the course and no matter what happens in terms of setup, rules etc...it's going to be a long round.

 

[rulefan]

Is course setup any different now to 30 years ago? 3-3.5hr rounds were the norm back then now it is 4-4.5hrs.

Maybe course setup is a factor but I firmly believe most of it is down to individuals.

From the document.
http://www.randa.org/Pace-of-Play-Manual


It is a commonly held view that rounds of golf played over the same course take longer now than they once did. While it is impossible to confirm that this is the case, ......

Have you got real evidence that they haven't?

 

[USER1999]

Is course setup any different now to 30 years ago? 3-3.5hr rounds were the norm back then now it is 4-4.5hrs.

Maybe course setup is a factor but I firmly believe most of it is down to individuals.

The course I play at varies, but to a huge extent, it's down to whoever sets the course up. The rough at times can be daft.

 

[stevelev]

I dont believe courses need really long rough, much of which is wispy. You cant find a ball quickly and can usually if you find it get an iron through the grass to get some decent distance on the shot.

Now reduce the height to a few inches maybe 4 max, have the grass with a much tighter sward and things change. You will find your ball much easier but the grass will be consistently thick so no real chance to get a decent shot making you play out sideways or at least laying up for any but the strongest players. Result, speeded up play, but penalised for going off track. It really isn't that difficult.

Also with really long rough there is greater risk of injury due to clumps of untended grass.

 

[USER1999]

Last weekend, hacking out sideways was the only option.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Being ready to play and ready golf are always need imo.

today took 4 hours 15 mins. 3 ball. First half 1 hour 45 mins second 2 hours 30 mins because we caught up the group in front.

they would mark up every 2 foot putt and take in turns rather than just finish off. None where ready to go when others finished. Would tee off and none of the others had a club out. We called the Marshall and he said the group behind are saying your slow and I turned to him and said the group behind are clearly a bit thick then considering we have been on 2 par 3s and a drivable par 4 tee with them arriving and they can clearly see us having to wait for this lot in front to finish (over 10 mins each time) yet we are the problem? I suggest you go back to them and tell them to open their eyes or engage the grey matter between. He laughed

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

From the document.
http://www.randa.org/Pace-of-Play-Manual


It is a commonly held view that rounds of golf played over the same course take longer now than they once did. While it is impossible to confirm that this is the case, ......

Have you got real evidence that they haven't?

Only evidence I have is over 40 years experience of playing this wonderful game.

 

[Beedee]

I must admit I'd always thought the excuse for penal rough being "a demanding test of golf" actually meant "if we only have to cut the rough once in a blue moon we can spend less on green keeping staff"