SPEED OF PLAY

[mjsw13]

Now some may call me an overly quick player, if the course is pretty clear and I'm on my own, I can usually get round in about 2.5 hours, playing with 2 balls, holing out both on every green (5950 yard course). Obviously I don't expect to be able to play at that speed in a competition, but 4+ hour rounds are doing my head in!

I don't see why, on my course, 3 hours shouldn't be an average time for a 2 ball, and 3.5 for a 3 ball, yet virtually every time I play in a competition, it takes about 4.5 hours. As a young man with a full time job it's a nightmare, having to factor in this amount of time when half of it is spent waiting on tees for the dawdlers in front to stop taking practice swings or wait for 40 seconds while they address the ball.

I realise this topic has been done to death, both on the forum and in the magazine, but the only thing I can think of to speed up the game, and to stop putting off potential players or current players, is to penalise the dawdlers. I realise it's difficult to referee, but I think it's time busy, popular clubs, need to budget for course wardens for this purpose.

What are your opinions on this please? Like I say, I probabaly am an overly fast golfer when the course is quiet, yet when playing in a 3-ball, I'm happy to go round an hour slower, at 3.5 hours for 18 holes. I would never rush a playing partner, opponent, or those in front by lashing up a 'warning drive', but it really is tedious being out there for well over 4 hours when I have other stuff to do. Not better stuff than play golf, but other, important stuff nonetheless.

Cheers

 

[Parmo]

This is not meant to offend, and Hi btw.

How about finding another sport that can be fitted into your personal free time?

I play on weekends and on a course of 5250 takes about 4hrs a round, do I mind? No, I wait all week to play and though obvious slow play is offendable, general play is not. I get fed up of people telling golfers how long such and such a round "should take", golf is about relaxation and enjoyment of the game, if you want a quick round how about tee off later in the day or teeing off pre 7am then you will be back home by 1030 in the summer like I used to?

If I want to take 40 seconds for a pre shot routine so what? I have walked at a steady pace to my ball, I have played a provision if needed, I have done everything else I can do reduce time within reason not forgetting I have paid my subs as well, please don't start making up times for all other aspects of the game because of other peoples poor time management, and this is what it really boils down to, peoples poor management of their own personal time. Me, I enjoy a few pints after a round on the weekend with some banter and also support the clubhouse, unlike some of these golf joggers who only see the inside of the clubhouse on presentation night.

 

[Timbo]

I agree with Parmo. Yes, overly slow play can be frustrating, marking cards on the green etc etc discouraged, but I have enough stresses and strains in every day life to allow my enjoyment time to be rushed as well!!

A 3 ball 18 hole stableford comp usually takes about 4 hrs on our 6100 yd course, with most groups keeping up with each other. Work to live, not live to work!!

 

[USER1999]

I do have issues with slow play, especially in comps. Not due to the absolute time taken, or due to needing to be somewhere else, just that I hate standing waiting for every shot, and it normally causes me to lose my rhythm, and then I play badly.

I don't get why a 4 ball on Saturday morning takes 4 hours, but a 3 ball medal on Sunday takes 4 1/2 hours. What possibly adds this amount of time? It isn't just holing out, as most hole out on Saturday too, as it could be the only golf played all week, and people want to complete the round.

The society I belong to averages 5 hours. How?

I kind of agree with the OP, as slow play drives me nuts, but don't see how you can put a time on it, or ping the abusers (although often you could draw up a list of players at your club who are notoriously slow, and if these were banned from playing together it would help).

Yes, I can smell the roses, watch the wildlife, etc, but I am on the course to play golf, so can we get on with it?

 

[heronsghyll]

I remember an article I read many years ago by the great Jack Nickaluas on the subject of slow play.

In summary he advised new golfers to think as follows:

If you always move rapidly to your ball, get prepared while your playing partners are playing so when it is your time to play you are ready, clear the tee/ fairway/green as soon as you have played - no one will complain if you take time over the ball before playing your shot.

So, take your time - as much as you want - over your shot when it is your turn to play, but ensure all other aspects of play are reasonably paced and no-one will complain.

I try to do this at all times and no-one has ever complained about me.

Just a thought for contribution to the thread.

 

[nmartyn]

my club have just informed me that they're only accepting 4 ball bookings for weekend mornings now as its getting so busy, so if i book a 2ball this may be cancelled in favour of a 4 ball if there isn't another 2 to make my booking up to a 4!!!
if i EVER turn up and am told this theres gonna be hell to pay

 

[Macster]

3.5hrs for a 3ball in Medal play normal for me.

That aint fast.....but it certainly aint slow.

No offence, but you sound like you'd be a nightmare to play with. Whats the hurry ?

 

[Twire]

Welcome mjsw

I must say, my place is turning into a bit of a race track. Sometimes in the bar, the conversations not how well they played, but how quick they got around.

About 6-8 weeks ago I was in a 3 ball stableford. We were putting out on the 11th when a 3 ball from two groups behind walked in after 9 holes. Back in the clubhouse I asked the group that were directly behind us what the problem was, I was told that it was because our group were slow. Now to a degree I can see where they are coming from because on our par 3 8th hole I pushed my tee shot right and landed in a very large GUR and needed a ruling on where I could drop (no drop zone at that time, there is one now!!) anyway, I played my shot and wondered to the green only to find the other player needed clarification on relief from a sprinkler head....any way this must have put 5 mins on the hole. Now when playing our 9th hole you can see across to the 12th green, but not the fairway. When the group that walked in played the 9th they could see people on the 12th green and saw us on the 10th green and assumed we had lost 2 holes, but we had'nt there was a group going up the 12th fairway. Now with all this going on and a group walking in, you'd like to think we were desperately slow.........infact we were round in 3hours 25mins. So i'd say the same as parmo, if you want a quick round make sure your out early.

 

[mjsw13]

I get what you're saying Parmo, and I wasn't meaning set a defined universal time, but I don't see a problem with guide time for each individual course, based on that day's format. From what you say you don't sound like a slow player, my real gripes are the ones who literally dawdle up the fairway with their powered trolleys practically in reverse, waiting for others to play before contemplating their shots, tooling about with unnecessary GPS, then take many practice swings before settling into their painstaking 'pre shot routine'. I have just never felt the need to have more than one practice swing, settle, then strike. I don't run between shots and do not ever feel rushed.

I enjoy the game and the walk (and the adder spotting) as much as the next person, and play as much as time and weather allows. I also support the clubhouse where possible, although at £3.20 a pint, not as much as I'd like.

To suggest it is down to poor personal time management I feel is a bit unfair - I have a full-time job which I obviously HAVE to do, and only do other sports (running and surfing) when it's raining. I budget 4.5 hours for an 18 hole comp which, I feel, should be enough for a round and a pint. Yet I have played in comps where the final few groups have been unable to finish due to darkness. If we are trying to encourage children and young people to play the game, then something needs to be done, as very few of these people can afford 5 hours every Wednesday and a whole day at the weekend, there simply aren't enough daylight hours in the week.

ChrisMc - I would love it if a 3-ball medal at my course took 3.5 hours, love it!

I feel heronsghyll has pretty much hit the nail on the head - unfortunately, I feel, too many players do not follow that advice, and should they continue to do so, I, and many others may have to turn to our other sports such as surfing.

 

[JustOne]

I remember the days (Saturday afternoons on a municipal course) when we'd be on the tee and the next 4-ball would catch us up so we'd have a chat whilst we waited for the group in front to get outta the way. By the time we'd actually get to hit the NEXT 4-ball would arrive so there'd be 11 people watching you play your drive - happy days

Nowadays I'm lucky to see 10 people on the course where I play - - - happier days!

4 hours is fine for me, I'm in no particular hurry. 5 hours or more would be cool as long as I have enough cigarettes and I am 2 under par.

 

[Molly]

Spot on Murph - our society takes 5hours+ as well. Drives many people nuts! We try to encourage people to do a few sensible things when playing;

- be considerate of others
- keep up with the group ahead, not just in front of those behind
- get to your ball at a reasonable pace then be ready to play when it's your turn
- pick up when you're out of shots
- position your bag/trolley sensibly i.e. on the way to next tee
- mark scores at the next tee, not on the green
- be prepared to let others through if you drop behind (notoriously bad at this one!)

I think it's about finding a balance. We're all out to play golf and want to do so in a relaxed and enjoyable setting. There are naturally faster and slower players and you just have to try and let it not bother you. I know, easier said than done if you are waiting to play every shot on every hole! I do get frustrated about this one as it definitely does affect my rhythm, but then i remember i am playing golf with my mates and not having to cut the grass or paint the spare room!

We don't have an official offenders list, but there are 3 or 4 that I try to keep apart. I always name and shame at the presentations too - they love that!

 

[FourRight]

I have suffered both extremes. I had a 5 1/2 hour 4 ball round simple due to one of the four insisting on taking 3 or 4 practice swings with 3 or 4 clubs for every shot.

I have also played with a group that were so fast (on the tee and green started walking to their balls/next tee as the last person was making their downswing or stroke). That put me under so much preasure that my game fell to pieces and slowed them down even further, to the point where on the last 6 holes I was quite often putting by myself.

I do agree with murphthemog, having to wait to play every shot can put me out of my rhythem, but in the a climate where some clubs insist on put people out as close together as posible, it is in some cases impossible to let people through, simple because everyone else is being held up by the group in front.

I am sure if a poll where done we could all recount times when we have followed a group that is doing everthing wrong (Bags on the opposite side of the green to the next tee, marking cards on the green, etc, etc) but think they are doing nothing wrong.

 

[Mike_j_golf]

A guy we play with is slow so we play ready to go golf in our 4ball to give him more time to get his pre shot routine in. The Gui guide lines for time to take a shot from once u arrive at the ball is the first player 50 seconds and every other player 40 seconds.
Mike

 

[USER1999]

There is one guy I have played with at my place who is unbelievably slow. I have never seen anything like it. He just does everything in slow motion. If he is the first to tee off in a 4, the other 3 will have tee'd off, walked to their balls and be preparing to play, leaving this bloke back on the tee, where he still hasn't put the head cover on his driver, let alone done any walking. He walks very slowly too, so I think he must add 1 1/2 hours to the round, all on his own.
He was my drawn partner in a comp, and is the only guy I have ever played with where by the end of the round I would have happily killed him.
He is a nice bloke, but I will never play golf with him again.
There is also a 2 ball who play on Fridays. We (3 ball) came accross them when we were on the 14th tee, and could see them on the 18th tee, a par 5. We played the par 4 14th, par 4 15th, par 3 16th, par 4 17th, and then hit drives on the par 5, and had to wait for them to clear the green. What day did their round start? Monday?

I genuinely don't understand what can take so long in a game of golf.

Oh, and please don't blame electric trolleys, or gps. You are either slow, or you aren't, the kit you use is irrelevant.

 

[Parmo]

mjsw13, I understand what you are saying, I would like to be able to have a round a pint or two and then have time left in the day for other things, the only way I can manage this is to be off at 8am or before (meaning a 6am wake up) with a usual finish about 12, couple of pints and a chat home by 130pm or 2pm. I have an example of this from last weekend, some mates tee off always after 11am (all single older men) so its between 1500-1600 we finish and then a couple of pints and the day is over for me and due to being out since usual 9am (practice before round) its a full weekend day away from HID which doesn’t go down a treat.

Marshals are great, but how many clubs can afford them and many clubs are putting up with slow play from day members due to the cash.

I tend to mention to the group in front how slow it is, kind of speeds them up if I think the pace is slow. Last weekend we arrived at our 3rd tee only to find two groups there already and after a 20 minute wait we tee'd off, seemed to have cleared by the time we putted out on that hole and didn’t really get slowed down again, maybe a lost ball by 6 groups in front lol.

In recent weeks my concern has been with fair-weather golfers at our municipal, you see them a mile away with their Dunlop full sets and matching trolleys and usually wearing shorts no matter the weather. The problem besides their slow play and club sharing is that I can not leave my clubs in the locker room unattended (if taking home and just having a quick pint or three) without having to empty my locker and cram the door shut then a hour later go through the same thing to get them out.

 

[McTear]

Hi

One of biggest differences between the slow and fast players at my course is the time it takes for them to hole out on the greens. I've played with some people who take forever to mark their ball, then line it up using the alignment aid, then a few practice strokes, then putt. Nobody likes to be rushed on the golf course but I think if you take consistently longer than 1 min to play a shot during a medal something should be done.

would be interesting to see what Pro's would say about this also. I've read various articles with Pro's complaining about the length of time it takes for other Pro's to hit shots.

Cheers,

 

[TonyN]

Not read the hole thread so appologies if I have missed something or its been said.

I hate fast rounds. I do like to play at a half decent pace. Infact 3.5 hours for a 2 ball wouldn't bother me.

Golf is a hobby, I do it for fun, why would I want to finish it quickly.

Do people who hate slow golf go and watch half of a film at the pictures or leave a football match after 80 minutes?(not applicable when getting a hammering)

Dont get me wrong, I dont like overly slow golf either, I think anything over 4.5 hours is hard to keep any kind of game going.(3 or 4 ball)

People join golf clubs for fun, the play in comps for fun, why would you want to rush others peoples fun. If you dont like the pace, you could always give the compas a miss and shoot round first or last thing in the day!

 

[mikeyh]

Rhythm is the key!

I don't care how long it takes as long as the round has a continuous speed. I hate being put out of Rhythm as it affects my game. Different things affect different people. I think you just have to be mentally prepared for the type of round. You can usually gauge it by asking in the pro shop how many people are out and in what formats.

 

[USER1999]

All sports are getting slower. If you look at the over rates for cricket, or the time for a set of tennis, they are all getting slower (footy excluded).

It is all very well saying that guys who want a faster round should choose a different sport, but in an era of declining memberships, this is not good for the game.

Personally, for me, over 4 hours is totally unacceptable, unless the course is huge, with big walks between tees. Clubs need to come up with a solution to this, before all the people with busy lives take up squash, or knitting, and the golf clubs go bust.

Holding tee times from 7 til 9 am for faaster players is one option, that has been tried at a club. It would be interesting to hear how it worked out.

If you are fit, I cannot understand how golf can take so long, and what a golfer can be doing all that time.

Oh, and the film analogy doesn't work. Would you watch a half hour film, spread over four hours, standing for ten minutes at a time looking at a blank screen, waiting for it to start again? No.

 

[Parmo]

It is all very well saying that guys who want a faster round should choose a different sport, but in an era of declining memberships, this is not good for the game.

Neither is it people who think its a time challenge and say a 2 ball has to complete in 2.5hrs a 3 ball 3hrs and a 4 ball less than 4 hrs. Golf is about relaxing and enjoyment is not about rushing and ruining other peoples rounds due to others personal commitments off the course.

I would have thought it obvious, if you are on a time scale why not tee off first thing in the morning? Why do these people insist on playing at peak times when they want and still worse insist on playing to their own time scales regardless of others on the track.

The meaning of slow play in my eyes is being manipulated by these people who are rushing around the course and blaming everyone on slow play due to their own poor time management. No doubt these people will want stop watches introduced at the pro shop to time people and then fine them if they are more than their specified times.