Solheim Cup Caddy Concession Moment

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

i missed the actual incident and outcome/ruling - but in a fourball match with the Americans about to putt a European caddy called out conceding the America player's putt (as it was on a similar line to that of her partner I assume). What was the full incident and what was wrong with this? Seems to me that Europe was perfectly entitled to concede the American putt and once conceded the Americans couldn't decline.

 

[pogle]

Only a player can concede a putt; a caddie can't. (Rule 2-4)

I didn't see the incident either, but reports suggest he did it after Annika Sorenstam suggested the putt should be conceded. There was a question whether Annika's statement was advice or not. (Only the team captain was allowed to give advice under the Conditions of Competition - Annika was a vice-captain). The officials ruled that the statement didn't constitute advice.

 

[Foxholer]

The officials ruled that the statement didn't constitute advice.

But took 30 minutes to do so!

 

[FairwayDodger]

But took 30 minutes to do so!

Think that was a different screw up the previous day.....

 

[Birchy]

Think that was a different screw up the previous day.....

That was the one with the drop wasn't it?

 

[FairwayDodger]

That was the one with the drop wasn't it?

Yeah.... took them half an hour to get it wrong!

 

[rulefan]

Yeah.... took them half an hour to get it wrong!

There was another on the following day. It also took half an hour but this time got it right.

 

[Foxholer]

Think that was a different screw up the previous day.....

Not according to this report..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1742085-2013-solheim-cup-caddy-controversy-stirs-emotions

The one on day 1 only took 25 mins

http://golfweek.com/news/2013/aug/16/solheim-cup-2013-day-1-controversial-ruling/

 

[FairwayDodger]

Not according to this report..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1742085-2013-solheim-cup-caddy-controversy-stirs-emotions

The one on day 1 only took 25 mins

http://golfweek.com/news/2013/aug/16/solheim-cup-2013-day-1-controversial-ruling/

Wow, didn't realise it'd raged on that long. I stand corrected.

What does this mean (from your link):

"Anna Nordqvist’s walk-off hole-in-one at No. 17 in Saturday morning foursomes and the loss by Creamer/Thompson in the first match of the afternoon set a very bad tone for the Americans."

 

[Foxholer]

Wow, didn't realise it'd raged on that long. I stand corrected.

What does this mean (from your link):

"Anna Nordqvist’s walk-off hole-in-one at No. 17 in Saturday morning foursomes and the loss by Creamer/Thompson in the first match of the afternoon set a very bad tone for the Americans."

The 'walk-off' refers to the fact that it also won the match. I know it from a winning home run in Softball, so Americans would know it from Baseball.

 

[Region3]

Wow, didn't realise it'd raged on that long. I stand corrected.

What does this mean (from your link):

"Anna Nordqvist’s walk-off hole-in-one at No. 17 in Saturday morning foursomes and the loss by Creamer/Thompson in the first match of the afternoon set a very bad tone for the Americans."

It means it ended the match. Ie. they can walk off after it.

Edit - beaten to it!!

 

[FairwayDodger]

The 'walk-off' refers to the fact that it also won the match. I know it from a inning home run in Softball, so Americans would know it from Baseball.

Ah, right, makes sense now. I thought someone had stormed off!

 

[cliveb]

I have a supplementary question. (Let's ignore the fact that in this case it was the caddy who tied to concede the putt).

The purpose of the concession was to prevent Paula Creamer giving her partner a read on the line, yes? But it is my understanding that once a putt is conceded, the player is then perfectly entitled to putt out if they wish (and even if they miss, the concession stands). So why couldn't Paula Creamer have putted out anyway? Is the rule about what you can do after a concession different in a fourball?

 

[Region3]

You can still putt out, but as it's classed as practicing you can only do so after everyone else has finished the hole...... I think.

 

[cliveb]

You can still putt out, but as it's classed as practicing you can only do so after everyone else has finished the hole...... I think.

So in singles matchplay, if my opponent concedes my putt and he still has to take his putt (eg. for a half), am I not allowed to take the putt until after my opponent has finished? (If so, I've been breaking the rules up to now!)

If I am allowed to putt out straight away, then your response doesn't seem to explain why Paula Creamer couldn't putt out.

 

[duncan mackie]

You can still putt out, but as it's classed as practicing you can only do so after everyone else has finished the hole...... I think.

you were doing well up to here

whilst you are correct that the player would be in breach of 7-2 if the partner is still in play, 30-3 c doesn't include 7-2 as a rule that invokes DQ to the side - so it's not a factor.

however, there is a specific ruling on the practice that covers the issue -

2-4/6
Putting Out After Concession of Stroke

Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole.

So, had a valid concession been made PC would have been required to pick up or the side would loose the hole.

Clearly the girls were weighing the issue of whether it was more advantagous to see the line or have the partners ball conceded, and decided on the latter. Personally I don't see what the fuss was about (apart from the advice issues and caddy action etc) as it's standard practice to concede in such situations!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My understanding (from this being discussed at length a couple of months back here) is that once you have been conceded a putt your ball is dead. However in a 4BBB match and your partners ball is still 'live', if you putt before your partner putts after having had your putt conceded by your opponents you are deemed to be practicing (on behalf of your team) and will be penalised. I think pairing loss of hole.

So if you are on similar line to your partner and you are closer to hole you can decide to play first to showe your partner the line. But if your opponents concede your putt you can't just continue. You have to pick up.

 

[duncan mackie]

So in singles matchplay, if my opponent concedes my putt and he still has to take his putt (eg. for a half), am I not allowed to take the putt until after my opponent has finished?

you are fine - you have completed the hole with the concession and 7-2 no longer applies. very bad ettiquette though; if you did it with me you would be putting everything out for the rest of the match!

 

[Foxholer]

Clearly the girls were weighing the issue of whether it was more advantagous to see the line or have the partners ball conceded, and decided on the latter. Personally I don't see what the fuss was about (apart from the advice issues and caddy action etc) as it's standard practice to concede in such situations!

Indeed. Pretty normal

PC's reaction as a bit too theatrical imo. I don't believe she knew the intricacies of what was going on as she was preparing to putt.

you are fine - you have completed the hole with the concession and 7-2 no longer applies. very bad ettiquette though; if you did it with me you would be putting everything out for the rest of the match!

I trust you wouldn't have a problem if he waited until you had putted before practicing - after the hole has been completely finished.

 

[rulefan]

However in a 4BBB match and your partners ball is still 'live', if you putt before your partner putts after having had your putt conceded by your opponents you are deemed to be practicing (on behalf of your team) and will be penalised. I think pairing loss of hole.

There is no penalty for practicing in this situation if you were away from your partner's line. The penalty would arise if you were showing your partner the line.

So if you are on similar line to your partner and you are closer to hole you can decide to play first to showe your partner the line. But if your opponents concede your putt you can't just continue. You have to pick up.

Correct.

This was posted earlier in the thread.

Decision 2-4/6 - Putting Out After Concession of Stroke

Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole.