Softer golf balls give worse dispersion!

[delc]

Golf ball manufacturers are falling over each other to make lower compression, softer feeling balls. Having tried a few, I get the distinct impression that they make hooks and slices rather worse! Possibly this is because they compress and spend more time on the club face and therefore spin more, including any sidespin component. Has anybody else noticed this effect?

 

[Rooter]

popcorn on! Salt or sweet?

 

[scottbrown]

Golf ball manufacturers are falling over each other to make lower compression, softer feeling balls. Having tried a few, I get the distinct impression that they make hooks and slices rather worse! Possibly this is because they compress and spend more time on the club face and therefore spin more, including any sidespin component. Has anybody else noticed this effect?

In other news, the pope has recently announced he's catholic

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

In other news, the pope has recently announced he's catholic

You'll never guess what, scientists have looked into where Bears defecate as well. It's in the woods.

 

[YorkshireStu]

It's not the worst observation to be fair. The number of balls on the market can be fairly confusing for a new golfer with multiple selling points claimed for each ball.
From my thread about 2 piece balls I've settled on a slightly harder two piece ball for now.

 

[the_coach]

just re-visiting why balls go left or right.

straight ball has the backspin spinning around the ball's horizontal center axis.

through swing direction/face angle contact at impact for a ball to curve that 'horizontal center axis' gets tilted one ways or another (think of a plane banking to turn one ways or another that's essentially what happens to the ball's axis, it gets tilted so the backspin is now spinning around a tilted axis) so ball flight curves to the left or right.

through the complete range of a manufacturers ball range there's a range of lower to higher spinning balls (backspin) but from lowest to highest encompasses only around 500 rpm's difference.

so say on a handicap players drive that would equate to something around 5 to 10 yards difference in the 'straightness', but only because the ball is spinning marginally faster (with the highest spinning ball type) around the ball's center axis, it's not spinning 'leftfield' or spinning 'rightfield' faster any.

so selecting a low/high spin ball isn't going to help overmuch in straightening out shots as most folks wilder offline shots are a deal more offline than 10 yards first off, & it may well give you even more problems in the short game to contribute to more shots 'lost', that's the area players 'lose' most of their strokes in a game.

lower compression ball will travel a little ways further in 'cold' temps as it has more 'plasticity' out of higher to lower compression balls that have the same core temperature when being used.

 

[duncan mackie]

just re-visiting why balls go left or right.

straight ball has the backspin spinning around the ball's horizontal center axis.

through swing direction/face angle contact at impact for a ball to curve that 'horizontal center axis' gets tilted one ways or another (think of a plane banking to turn one ways or another that's essentially what happens to the ball's axis, it gets tilted so the backspin is now spinning around a tilted axis) so ball flight curves to the left or right.

through the complete range of a manufacturers ball range there's a range of lower to higher spinning balls (backspin) but from lowest to highest encompasses only around 500 rpm's difference.

so say on a handicap players drive that would equate to something around 5 to 10 yards difference in the 'straightness', but only because the ball is spinning marginally faster (with the highest spinning ball type) around the ball's center axis, it's not spinning 'leftfield' or spinning 'rightfield' faster any.

so selecting a low/high spin ball isn't going to help overmuch in straightening out shots as most folks wilder offline shots are a deal more offline than 10 yards first off, & it may well give you even more problems in the short game to contribute to more shots 'lost', that's the area players 'lose' most of their strokes in a game.

lower compression ball will travel a little ways further in 'cold' temps as it has more 'plasticity' out of higher to lower compression balls that have the same core temperature when being used.

Spin alone I would agree - but there's more to it through dimple patterns ....

However the OP's suggestion that it's fundamentally related to the time the ball spends in contact with the club face

 

[Foxholer]

Golf ball manufacturers are falling over each other to make lower compression, softer feeling balls. Having tried a few, I get the distinct impression that they make hooks and slices rather worse! Possibly this is because they compress and spend more time on the club face and therefore spin more, including any sidespin component. Has anybody else noticed this effect?

I'd suggest that it's more related to the feeling of having to hit it harder, so a less controlled/spinnier shot results. I certainly don't find any difference in dispersion between the standard NXT - which I don't like the feel of - and the 'S' version, which is my ball of choice and goes pretty straight!

Whatever difference there is, I'd suggest it's pretty marginal. Dimple pattern is likely to be much more a factor imo.

 

[the_coach]

dimple pattern will have a very, very small influence in curvature.

backspin creates lift & dimples assist, smooth ball has lift just not as much, dimples help prevent drag, couple things that keeps the ball in the air.
but the dimples don't have any direct 'traction' on the air the ball is traveling through.

this is because upon launch the ball 'takes' a covering of air with it, the 'boundary layer' 'sticks' to the ball this layer gets dragged along it's flight, so it's air, in that layer, passing through the air.

the factor that has most effect is the spin, (& that spin around ball's center axis) it's the spinning action of the ball that deforms, warps the airflow so making it act like a 'wing' depending which ways that wing is tilted the ball curves in the air.

shallower dimples result in generally making the ball fly higher, but larger dimples make the ball fly lower so the problem is balancing the 2, depth & size around the small surface area of a golf ball.

likewise it's not 'true' that more dimples will make a ball travel further, if you think about that a tad, then tens of thousands of really minute dimples would result in a super long ball ... but the more of these very small dimples you create & put in the same size area of a golf ball then the 'smoother' that surface area is going to be, smooth balls have more drag & don't travel as far - that's one of the big reasons dimples exist first off.

 

[drdel]

Aerodynamics and boundary layer influences of the Dimples improve directional stability - Tis why gun barrels are rifled.

Tis also true that the softer ball's deformation will increase the surface area in contact with the club face and hence increase the potential friction and influence of the grooves. The interaction of the club (mostly hybrid/woods) and the trampoline effect MAY increase spin but a harder ball may have a better CoR. I suspect these effects will be marginal compared to the golfer's line of attack etc.

 

[Markw]

Golf ball manufacturers are falling over each other to make lower compression, softer feeling balls. Having tried a few, I get the distinct impression that they make hooks and slices rather worse! Possibly this is because they compress and spend more time on the club face and therefore spin more, including any sidespin component. Has anybody else noticed this effect?

Without a doubt, I use Bridgestone E6 and if I switch to a pro v1 over a round its very noticeable, it turns my 5 yard draw into a 20 yard draw, have even noticed it with a AD333 and that is between the 2. if you want straighter then i'd recommend the Bridgestone E6 or **FIX**

 

[Foxholer]

Without a doubt, I use Bridgestone E6 and if I switch to a pro v1 over a round its very noticeable, it turns my 5 yard draw into a 20 yard draw, have even noticed it with a AD333 and that is between the 2. if you want straighter then i'd recommend the Bridgestone E6 or **FIX**

Well, that actually disproves the 'low compression = greater dispersion' argument then!

Pro V1 is a pretty high compression ball - around 90 from memory, while the E6 is around 50! However, the E6 is a low spin ball! Seems like that's the real key!

Btw. The article that mentioned the E6 compression stated that 'As a general rule, lower compression almost always equates to less spin off the tee. That’s why the E6 has a compression around 50....'

 

[Markw]

Well, that actually disproves the 'low compression = greater dispersion' argument then!

Pro V1 is a pretty high compression ball - around 90 from memory, while the E6 is around 50! However, the E6 is a low spin ball! Seems like that's the real key!

Btw. The article that mentioned the E6 compression stated that 'As a general rule, lower compression almost always equates to less spin off the tee. That’s why the E6 has a compression around 50....'

I don't know anything about the compression of the balls mentioned, the pro v1 feels softer? also same results with a z star. There is obviously more to it that makes a ball straighter but all I can say is that the balls I use give a lot less sidespin.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't know anything about the compression of the balls mentioned, the pro v1 feels softer? also same results with a z star. There is obviously more to it that makes a ball straighter but all I can say is that the balls I use give a lot less sidespin.

Indeed. It's the sidespin that causes the dispersion. However, the OP was suggestion that it's (purely/predominantly) lower compression that causes (side)spin. Your experience - and the statement in that article http://www.golfwrx.com/64307/bridgestones-2013-e5-e6-and-e7-golf-balls/ - indicate that's not the case!

Here's another good reference. http://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/equipment-choices/golf-ball-compression-chart-and-rank/

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Unreservedly cynical but if the OP| doesn't like the effect a low compression ball has, don't use it. The market is inundated with good performing two and three piece balls of higher compression before we get onto the premium market and so there's bound to be one to suit even Delc

 

[shortstuff]

Golf ball manufacturers are falling over each other to make lower compression, softer feeling balls. Having tried a few, I get the distinct impression that they make hooks and slices rather worse! Possibly this is because they compress and spend more time on the club face and therefore spin more, including any sidespin component. Has anybody else noticed this effect?

No, the opposite. Softer, better quality balls fly straighter exactly because they have more back-spin.

 

[delc]

No, the opposite. Softer, better quality balls fly straighter exactly because they have more back-spin.

Yes, but if your club face and swing path don't fully line up, then you will add a small sidespin component to the backspin (effectively backspin axis at an angle to the horizontal). This is what causes hooks and slices. Therefore high spinning balls should hook or slice more than low spinning ones, and fly higher as well, although the dimpling may counteract this. In my experience balls such as the Bridgestone E6 and Fix, Srixon AD333, distance and Trispeed, Titleist ProV1x and Velocity, seem to hold their line pretty well. The worst for hooks and slices seem to be the Bridgestone B330-RXS and Wilson DX3, although I could have just been having an off day when I used these particular balls. :mmm:

 

[Foxholer]

Yes, but if your club face and swing path don't fully line up, then you will add a small sidespin component to the backspin (effectively backspin axis at an angle to the horizontal). This is what causes hooks and slices. Therefore high spinning balls should hook or slice more than low spinning ones, and fly higher as well, although the dimpling may counteract this. In my experience balls such as the Bridgestone E6 and Fix, Srixon AD333, distance and Trispeed, Titleist ProV1x and Velocity, seem to hold their line pretty well. The worst for hooks and slices seem to be the Bridgestone B330-RXS and Wilson DX3, although I could have just been having an off day when I used these particular balls. :mmm:

You have taken a single attribute, ignoring all the other attributes/variables involved and extrapolating the 'results' - to an invalid conclusion. It's not the first time you have taken this 'blinkered' approach!

That's definitely not 'scientific method'. As you are an ex scientist, that's a diabolical way to act! With your history on here though, it's no surprise!

While I don't disagree with the post I have quoted here - absolutely agree that it's the 'sidespin' that the hooks/slices - it's actually rather unrelated to your original assertion (and the title of the thread) that it's the lower compression/softness that causes them!

And if it was all so easy, there would probably be a far smaller range of balls on the market!

So find the ball (or balls) that suit your game best and enjoy your golf! And if you stopped posting such tripe as you original assertion, that would be a bonus imo!

 

[User20205]

. It's not the first time you have taken this 'blinkered' approach.....With your history on here though, it's no surprise!
And if you stopped posting such tripe as you original assertion, that would be a bonus imo!

Sorry I have nothing to add, mainly due to acute indifference, but I just wanted to highlight, stand back and marvel at the beautiful irony of the above.

 

[One Planer]

Yes, but if your club face and swing path don't fully line up, then you will add a small sidespin component to the backspin (effectively backspin axis at an angle to the horizontal). This is what causes hooks and slices. Therefore high spinning balls should hook or slice more than low spinning ones, and fly higher as well, although the dimpling may counteract this. In my experience balls such as the Bridgestone E6 and Fix, Srixon AD333, distance and Trispeed, Titleist ProV1x and Velocity, seem to hold their line pretty well. The worst for hooks and slices seem to be the Bridgestone B330-RXS and Wilson DX3, although I could have just been having an off day when I used these particular balls. :mmm:

Without wanting to sound pedantic, I can hook an AD333 as easily as a Pro V1 (... Or the Callaway Hex Chrome+ I play).

I don't understand your point Del.