Smart Motorways

SaintHacker

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Being talked about in the news quite a lot at the moment.
I'm a professional driver (pcv) so I've done many thousands of miles up and down the country and used smart motorways a lot. In my opinion they work well, if people obey the rules. Unfortunately sa with most things some people think the rules don't apply to them and thats where problems happen.
People seem to be under the impression that its just about using, or not having, a hard shoulder, but there's more to them than that. They are designed to pre-empt traffic build up and slow approaching traffic down before the concertina effect takes full hold and everything grinds to a halt.
You do have to ask though with the newly built ones if there's enough room to build the refuge areas then surely there's enough room for a full hard shoulder?
 

CliveW

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In Scotland there are no hard shoulders on the majority of the motorways. Drivers also leave more distance between themselves and the vehicle in front thus giving more reaction time. In my opinion it is the drivers rather than the road to blame
 

Blue in Munich

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As a former emergency services worker I consider them one of the worst day's work that those responsible have ever done. There is an HA stat that the average time a vehicle was stationary on the hard shoulder before being hit is 11 minutes. Given that vehicles are struck that quickly, and that was on dedicated hard shoulders, I cannot fathom out how anyone thought it was a good idea for broken down vehicles to sit in a LIVE traffic lane; yes, I know there are safety pockets, but realistically how often can people get to them? The realistic prospect will be broken down or accident damaged vehicles sitting in a live lane. And when there is an incident, the lack of a hard shoulder makes the job of the emergency services getting to the scene that much harder, and leaves many more issues in sorting out the mess. Utterly ridiculous idea, which is being recognised by coroners and others.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56198979

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-55708791

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-56089258
 
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In Scotland there are no hard shoulders on the majority of the motorways. Drivers also leave more distance between themselves and the vehicle in front thus giving more reaction time. In my opinion it is the drivers rather than the road to blame

It's a pleasure to drive in Scotland. I only ever venture south of Lancaster if going to Manchester Airport and only go there if I can't get to my destination from Glasgow.....

Feel sorry for road users down south, too many people and too many cars.
 

SaintHacker

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As a former emergency services worker I consider them one of the worst day's work that those responsible have ever done. There is an HA stat that the average time a vehicle was stationary on the hard shoulder before being hit is 11 minutes. Given that vehicles are struck that quickly, and that was on dedicated hard shoulders, I cannot fathom out how anyone thought it was a good idea for broken down vehicles to sit in a LIVE traffic lane; yes, I know there are safety pockets, but realistically how often can people get to them? The realistic prospect will be broken down or accident damaged vehicles sitting in a live lane. And when there is an incident, the lack of a hard shoulder makes the job of the emergency services getting to the scene that much harder, and leaves many more issues in sorting out the mess. Utterly ridiculous idea, which is being recognised by coroners and others.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56198979

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-55708791

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-56089258

Totally respect what you're saying, but if people do what they're suppoaed to do then it won't be a live lane, as it will have been shut by red x's. But thats relying on people sticking to rules, and not using it as their own personal fast lane ?
Maybe the answer is to massively increase penalties for ignoring the signs, say 6 points fot every sign that is ignored?
 

Tashyboy

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South Yorkshire smart motorways are death traps. The coroner has said as much numerous times.
A little story from my daughter who went to an accident one night.
A car had broke down.The guy gets out of car and climbs over the barrier.The woman is obese and cannot climb over the barrier so walked 20 yards further down the motorway and sat on the barrier. Sometime later A lorry slammed into the back of the broken down car. It in turn shot forward hit the woman and de sloughed every bit of soft tissue off her lower legs. Despite attempts of my daughter, her workmate, paramedics and a dr who stopped to help she died.
There is just not enough places to pull over should ther be a breakdown Or emergency. Even though there is room to build them.
I think the concept of smart motorways to have extra lanes is fine, but you could have 10lanes and folk would still hog lanes.
 

Golfmmad

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M25 is beyond repair. They could increase it to 8 lanes and it still wouldn't be enough

Sorry but I have to disagree. The M25 is vital to the area that it covers. Without it, the areas around London would be gridlocked! Any one remember the South and North circular roads around London? They would certainly come to a standstill.
In my job I use the M25 from J5 to J12at least half dozen times a week. The variable speed cameras between J9 and J12 in normal times are completely necessary to slow traffic down in a safe way. But are not always switched on to catch speeding at say 40-50mph.
Nobody ever mentioned no escape lanes on most dual carriageways, which are just as dangerous at speeds of 70mph plus!
 

Bunkermagnet

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I have mixed views on smart motorways, and yes I use the M25 quite a bit. To my mind, peoples lane discipline and willingness to obey the lane closure signs should be looked at first.
 

Blue in Munich

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Totally respect what you're saying, but if people do what they're suppoaed to do then it won't be a live lane, as it will have been shut by red x's. But thats relying on people sticking to rules, and not using it as their own personal fast lane ?
Maybe the answer is to massively increase penalties for ignoring the signs, say 6 points fot every sign that is ignored?

Equally, I respect your point, but there will be circumstances where it is not possible to make the refuge area (cam belt failure for one) and in those circumstances the lack of a hard shoulder literally can be the difference between life & death. Turning on the red X's may well be reliant on the number of control room staff and the amount of equipment provided, and I have heard suggestions that they have been built down to a price rather than up to a standard.

As professional drivers (albeit I'm not still an active one), I think we can agree that driving standards are not what they used to be and play some part, but I would still put the bulk of the blame on the design in this instance.
 

Hobbit

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Maybe there's two aspects to the number of serious accidents on Smart Motorways. Drivers are conditioned to hard shoulders and free running traffic. And then there's the speed. Travelling at 70mph and coming up behind a stationary vehicle must be a shock to many as they drive along in auto pilot.

One thing is for sure, the name Smart is a misnomer. There doesn't seem much Smart about them.
 

SteveW86

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I think the problem is that the nation as a whole probably doesn’t obey traffic laws very well. I’m sure “everyone” on here as gone too fast at one point and the amount of people you see on their phones/texting is staggering. The rules can only be enforced to a certain extent and therefore overall I would say that driving standards are pretty poor in this country as too many people get away with it.

We are/were all used to motorways being a certain way and the majority of them were built a long time ago when there were significantly fewer cars on the road and they are now difficult to adapt to the demand we now have on the roads. Whilst I don’t think Smart motorways are perfect, I would always prefer to have a designated safe lane should I break down or need assistance, I would bet that the majority of incidents are caused by drivers not paying attention or driving too fast.

If the powers that be want them to work, then the rules should be stricter. Any time there is a reduced speed limit, then next overhead display and each one after it should have a camera on it to catch anyone that hasn’t slowed down.
 

Imurg

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Any system relies on the people using it.
From what I can tell, roads, junctions, Smart motorways etc etc are designed to work well of everyone plays to the rules.
The trouble is, as we all, know, some don't.
And as soon as one plays by a different set of rules all he'll is going to break loose.
Most of us don't pay enough attention to what's going on around us, especially on motorways
Let's face it, baring mechanical failure causing a car to speed up, slow down or swerve there shouldn't be any crashes on a motorway at all.
We're all going the same direction, at a similar speed.
There are nice white lines defining lanes and big signs giving us plenty of warning when our exit nears...
There are no dangerous roads ( apart from ones along the edges of a crumbling cliff) it's those who drive on them that make them dangerous
 

Pants

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I read the other day that they are possibly going to use radar to quickly detect stationary vehicles.

I can just see that working ...
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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If the M25 is an example, they are garbage. The speed limit is a random number generator, which has very little to do with traffic density, and a lot to do with raising money via the cameras.
Speed limits on m/ways are not only to do with traffic density but also road surface noise impact on adjacent residential or other areas.
 

Tashyboy

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Totally respect what you're saying, but if people do what they're suppoaed to do then it won't be a live lane, as it will have been shut by red x's. But thats relying on people sticking to rules, and not using it as their own personal fast lane ?
Maybe the answer is to massively increase penalties for ignoring the signs, say 6 points fot every sign that is ignored?

If people drove on motorways as they should, eg pull over once you have overtaken someone instead of hogging lanes. There would be no need to have four lanes or smart motorways.
 
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