Slow Play debate

I think he explains it all pretty well and I'm not a Crossfield fan.

As for the choices, we know what/who some people blame for slow play so you include them all irrelevant of any of them being controversial, if you omit them you can't address those biased views/opinions so it's good to put them all in the open imo.

Ignoring or hiding people's sexists or any kind of gender targeted view on slow play won't help change those views but I find that people with those views are simply blinkered towards them anyway and would never be swayed to change them whatever argument you could prove against them.

I've been playing in my clubs senior match play comps this season home away and I have to say that to accuse seniors of slow play is laughable.

There are also some ladies in a fourball who play just after our roll up on a Sunday and I know they are of varying handicaps up to 36 and they come in right behind us, so again I think it's all a myth because in my experience of people bleating on about slow play and crying foul towards women & seniors, it's actually themselves that are slow yapping and moaning about all and sundry on the tee block never being ready and if they stopped yapping they could have teed off already and not then put their drive in the trees either due to poor or no preparation because their gassing!
 
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Played yesterday in a club Stableford. One of the guys I played with was in his 70's and took an age to play his shots. Stood over the ball for what seemed an eternity before giving it a swipe. To be fair, he played quite steadily, but it was doing my head in. I nearly said something early doors, but it was a nice day, we weren't rushed so just let him get on with it.
Found out afterwards he was the Clubs President.
Good job I didn't swear once all the way round.....:o

Quite a high scoring day too.
44 points won it, 43 was 2nd and 41 3rd.
My 32 points was good enough for 36th place (out of 64).....:o:o
 
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jpjeffery said:
Interesting stuff, I think, not least the s**t storm it created on Twitter as people misunderstood (thanks to their own prejudice) why "Women" was included as an option in the related poll:
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I understand what he was trying to do, getting 3 polls going, each more detailed as they went on but...
If you just saw the 3rd poll, which gave choices that included Women and Seniors as a cause of slow play, it's understandable how he would get the reaction he got. In isolation it had all the potential to kick off, which it did. The 2nd poll - how long should a round take - is, by his own admission, u answerable given the question.

The results don't really tell us anything we didn't know - golf is faster when the course is quiet, who knew?
There are people with ingrained ideas of what causes slow play
There is a lot of anger about the subject....

Which asks a question - what was he trying to prove?
The vast majority of his 200k flock won't be surprised by the results so scratching the surface doesn't achieve anything.
 
Did he tell us anything we didn't already know? Just in a more arrogant and smarmy way?

The thing I didn't like was his little Twitter cult jumping on anyone that dare question him. He seemed to really enjoy that bit though.
 
With regards Lady members and "slow play" - we have mixed medals at our place, ladies enter into the medals at various times - none of them cause any pace of play issues whenever they play. On a Tuesday during their comps the ladies go round the course in a decent pace - there are a few higher HC's who take their time a little but not enough to cause major issues - they also play a lot of stablefords to ensure that they have no problems picking up if they cant score.

Seniors at our place is a bit of a different story - there is a big issue both in Senior Matches - the first tee is 9am until 9:40 and they arent finishing until after 2 , over 5 hours minimum to play a matchplay is not good pace and its always caused by the same people who just go around without a care in the world and not seeing the issues being caused behind them , the very same people play in the midweek medals and on average the pace of play is 45 mins slower compared to a weekend medal. Because course is getting busier during the week the pace of play is impacting a lot of people - 18 people shouldnt hold up a whole golf course , so changes are to be made.

Because Intelligent Golf has pace of play reports , shows you the time players took to play a round using the tee time and the time the first card was entered into the PSI - we have started to draw up a picture on players that are taking far longer than the recommended 4 hours to play a medal - suggestions are that people are to be asked to either ensure they keep up with the group in front and if they cant we be restricted to when they can play ( ie not in the first 2/3 hours of a comp ). We have put many recommendations in on how to the pace of play good - ready golf etc and on the whole the majority of members have embraced that , unfortunately there is the small group that just wont change their ways regardless of how it affects everyone and its only fair on the rest of the club these are tackled - i also understand its happening at other clubs in the area and even further afield - we could also possibly be looking to employ a marshall.

Slow play damages clubs and will damage the sport - it does indeed have to filter down from above but that doesnt mean we at club level can try things - its also not just the domain of a certain age or sex group.
 
Okay so first things first. Once on the course, personally I have found no difference in the way men v women play. none at all.

However, I do think there is an issue which may add to the length of the game and that is different tees. Normally, when I play, and granted this may not be the case for everyone, but in a mixed group the men tee of and normally off we'd go, but we then have to wait for any women playing to go down to their tee, sort their club out, PSR, hit it, pack up club etc and then off we go. I have no idea whether this adds time but it always feel slower when you have two different tees. Just a personal observation.
 
njrose51 said:
Okay so first things first. Once on the course, personally I have found no difference in the way men v women play. none at all.

However, I do think there is an issue which may add to the length of the game and that is different tees. Normally, when I play, and granted this may not be the case for everyone, but in a mixed group the men tee of and normally off we'd go, but we then have to wait for any women playing to go down to their tee, sort their club out, PSR, hit it, pack up club etc and then off we go. I have no idea whether this adds time but it always feel slower when you have two different tees. Just a personal observation.
Click to expand...

All our medals are mixed and there's no doubt that a group using two different tees needs a bit longer than a group using one tee. Slow play rules often give the first player to tee off longer than subsequent players and that's because they should be preparing while others are playing. That's often not possible if you need to move to a different tee. The main problem I have with this is that it tends to be me going last and I feel I rush my shot too often.

That's not the women's fault, however, just a feature of mixed golf.

There's not a gender factor in slow play - some golfers are slow and others are not.
 
The one thing that I can definitely confirm slowed a game down for me recently was the length of rough at Cooden. Absolutely absurd just a few feet from the fairway, and must have added at least forty minutes to our game and a few lost balls that should never have been lost.
 
I thought the Crossfield video/polls was one of his better pieces of work. However ....

The key point I felt was missed regarding pace of play was keeping up with the group in front - see people losing hole after hole and not inviting the quicker groups stacking up behind through. Busy or quiet course this is a major factor in slowing the golf down.

I do not care whether they are juniors, ladies, seniors, middle aged etc - but if you are losing ground and holding up groups you must invite them through - the offenders get tarred with the sexist or ageist brush by default.

I could name the groups at one course I play at who will never ever let you through, are so slow they lose multiple holes and they never look back other than to say a ball was hit too close to them. You simply time your golf to avoid them and expect 5 hrs of purgatory if you are behind them at a weekend.

But interestingly, this is a club that gave up addressing slow play 5 or so years ago and they have got worse ever since - unlike my other club where this is always on the agenda, new clocks round the course recently, aim to use 3 minutes for ball finding already etc. and the culture is not to tolerate it hence pace of play is much better despite the course being somewhat longer.

And another factor - halfway huts- guess which course has one and which one does not .....
 
I nearly give up this weekend after the 13th which is adjacent to the clubhouse as we were already at 3:30 mins!! only 3balls as well. On the 9th the group in front had played to the green, we were stood waiting to take our second shot, they walked past the green and to a path that goes round some trees to the tenth, we were about to play our second shot when they re appeared and we realised 2 of their balls weren't even at the green!!! They proceeded to walk back to their balls and continue to play!! Very frsutrating and I easily lose interested when I am waiting on every shot :(
 
I have to agree that seniors can be a problem ... and that is said as a senior myself. My two playing partners and I (two of us are seniors) are not particularly quick, but we often get stuck behind a dithery group of seniors who are faffing about, trolleys in the wrong place, marking cards on the green ... and never a thought of calling us through. Mind you, there is often another dithery group in front of them anyway! I can see why senior players get a bad press ... a lot of them deserve it. Some of us play at a reasonable pace though 😇😇.
 
i still don't understand what takes so long. yesterday whilst playing in a serious comp our fourball had to be let through by a two ball. i would be ashamed and embarrassed if a 4 ball had to play through two of us.
 
Its an interesting topic! Because its not down to type's of players - Junior/Senior/Women/Male.
Its just down to some individuals because ignorance for rules, not doing the right thing, likes to look like a pro and just generally slow, taking time over shot, provisional balls.

I play with a lad (27 year old) on Wednesday - I class him as slow but not a bad lad. But the other I was stuck behind an elderly guy who was zig zaging the course. So its just one of those things.

But on the other hand - you've got some lads/lass who believe anything over 3 hours is a sin! lol
 
hovis said:
i still don't understand what takes so long. yesterday whilst playing in a serious comp our fourball had to be let through by a two ball. i would be ashamed and embarrassed if a 4 ball had to play through two of us.
Click to expand...

What if the two ball were just having 'one of those days', (we all have 'em), were not in a rush and were aware of those behind them so let them play through?
Nothing to be ashamed of in my opinion.
 
I didn't hear any of the Whippersnappers at the Forest Pines meet complaining about the Old Farts pace of play and we certainly had quite a few seniors amongst the ranks. On the Monday, playing singles, the other Old Fart and I were never slower than our rivals and they kept the pace well despite more lost balls and wayward shots

I know some older groups can be slow but please don't tar us all with the same brush!
 
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