Simon Cowell

[JohnnyDee]

I find it pretty depressing that he has such a massive stranglehold over popular music and variety talent in the UK, and to a lesser extent, perhaps even in America too.

If I see another boy / girl band (when did the word band within a musical context start meaning dancing puppets, don't bands play instruments?) or a flaming dog-trainer being passed off as A List stars I might just go mad.

Can't the general public make up its own mind about what's good any longer rather than seemingly being happy to keep getting spoon-fed (mostly) third-rate holiday camp pap and wannabe clones.


*Lies down with cool damp cloth over forehead*

 

[Tongo]

I find it pretty depressing that he has such a massive stranglehold over popular music and variety talent in the UK, and to a lesser extent, perhaps even in America too.

If I see another boy / girl band (when did the word band within a musical context start meaning dancing puppets, don't bands play instruments?) or a flaming dog-trainer being passed off as A List stars I might just go mad.

Can't the general public make up its own mind about what's good any longer rather than seemingly being happy to keep getting spoon-fed (mostly) third-rate holiday camp pap and wannabe clones.


*Lies down with cool damp cloth over forehead*

Its a simple case of if you tell em its brilliant enough times they will eventually believe it.

Cowell's brand of music is a perfect example of the price of everything and the value of nothing. There's no legacy for these people. Their songs are quickly forgotten and replaced by the next wannabes. That's why you can flick through the commercial radio stations and still hear the likes of U2, Queen, the Beatles, Elvis, Duran Duran etc etc. And in ten years time you'll still be hearing those bands cos there's nothing in the modern era that will replace them. It is all eminently forgettable.

 

[Papas1982]

Its a simple case of if you tell em its brilliant enough times they will eventually believe it.

Cowell's brand of music is a perfect example of the price of everything and the value of nothing. There's no legacy for these people. Their songs are quickly forgotten and replaced by the next wannabes. That's why you can flick through the commercial radio stations and still hear the likes of U2, Queen, the Beatles, Elvis, Duran Duran etc etc. And in ten years time you'll still be hearing those bands cos there's nothing in the modern era that will replace them. It is all eminently forgettable.

Whilst I do tend to agree about them guys still being played, and the newer stuff maybe not lasting. I'd say some of the stuff deemed classics is just as poor. Duran Duran is quite pop like Imo for example. And the Beatles are what all new boy bands aspire to be now. Maybe not miss ally, but they had their fair share of obsessed fans.

How ow far would you go back before deciding all new bands are gimmicks? Take that for example, totally commercially and rubbish songs in the 90's. And yet now apparently respectable?

 

[Tongo]

Whilst I do tend to agree about them guys still being played, and the newer stuff maybe not lasting. I'd say some of the stuff deemed classics is just as poor. Duran Duran is quite pop like Imo for example. And the Beatles are what all new boy bands aspire to be now. Maybe not miss ally, but they had their fair share of obsessed fans.

How ow far would you go back before deciding all new bands are gimmicks? Take that for example, totally commercially and rubbish songs in the 90's. And yet now apparently respectable?

At least the Beatles and Duran Duran played their music. It may not have been everyone's cup of tea but they werent quite the same manufactured pap of the Cowell era. Cowell's music is like MacDonalds. It does the job in that it satiates hunger for a short amount of time but there's nothing good about it.

 

[Papas1982]

Sorry, may have crossed wires. Thought the comments were more a slight on today's music in general. If we're talking factor winners then yeah I agree. All manufactured dross. Some young bands these days still come up with good stuff though. But unfortunately most need a pop hit or too to get going.

 

[Tongo]

Sorry, may have crossed wires. Thought the comments were more a slight on today's music in general. If we're talking factor winners then yeah I agree. All manufactured dross. Some young bands these days still come up with good stuff though. But unfortunately most need a pop hit or too to get going.

Very much so. There is some excellent stuff out there but it doesnt get a look in these days.

 

[JohnnyDee]

Agree with what you're both saying and thankfully there will still be real bands coming through too but it's really the production line of pap that bugs me.

I was listening to Wogan earlier and one of the guests was some 'band' from Cowell's stable that copy (excruciatingly badly) the Rat Pack. He has others who sing classical and light classical music, again quite woefully, and so it goes on genre after genre.

Each one of these non-acts is taking up limited space in a fiercely crowded market, depriving a decent living to hard working real bands, who are travelling the length of the country, playing grotty dumps night after night, serving a real apprenticeship, knocking their guts out trying to get an even break and a crack at making a decent living.

So many of his acts are plucked from obscurity, have never set foot on a stage quite often and are really nothing much more than decent karaoke performers.

The people he signs are to his own lable and those who don't 'fly' or worse still, develop artistic ideas above their station, seemingly get dropped like a hot potato it would appear.

There have always been music stables since the 60s but this one is far too big and unhealthy for the industry in my opinion.

 

[drdel]

Enough money to provide the technology and sound engineers to make any idiot sound 'in-tune' and enough left-over to ensure there's a heavy marketing campaign to make the retailers 'stock' the dross with the so-called distributed 'sales' counting towards the top10 places.

Talented people with opinions would just get in the way of the machinery.

 

[c1973]

Can't stand that 'manufactured' music (where they put someone in front of a mike to sing songs they've not written) like Motown, Sinatra, Elvis etc.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Nothings changed in the last 30 years. Stock Aitken & waterman were doing exactly the same in the mid 80's onwards, the only difference is they didnt have a series of TV shows to find and exploit the "artists" . Besides didnt Cowell nick the idea for X Factor from Simon Fuller's "Pop Idol", on which he was a judge.?

 

[JohnnyDee]

Nothings changed in the last 30 years. Stock Aitken & waterman were doing exactly the same in the mid 80's onwards, the only difference is they didnt have a series of TV shows to find and exploit the "artists" . Besides didnt Cowell nick the idea for X Factor from Simon Fuller's "Pop Idol", on which he was a judge.?

I think he did

But you've put your finger on the nub of it. It's the free marketing (and thus massive sales that follow) masquerading as a TV show that really get right on my wick.

Ofcom should should take some kind of action to stop what is essentially cynical manipulation of the masses allowing him to fill the coffers of his company and the lining of his pockets.

 

[Imurg]

I think he did

But you've put your finger on the nub of it. It's the free marketing (and thus massive sales that follow) masquerading as a TV show that really get right on my wick.

Ofcom should should take some kind of action to stop what is essentially cynical manipulation of the masses to fill the coffers of his company.

But the masses seem quite happy, they have a remote control for their TV, they don't have to watch it....

 

[JohnnyDee]

But the masses seem quite happy, they have a remote control for their TV, they don't have to watch it....

That's very true and of course you're right, but the hype machine that ITV gears up when it's on is nothing short of mind boggling.

Good Morning Britain, This Morning and Loose Women to name but a few push these shows heavily and ruthlessly relentlessly The 'leaked' shenanigans and 'back stories' keep the tabloid press in front page headlines, in X Factor's case, from August to December, so its omnipresence is hard to avoid, and thus ensures the masses tune in in their millions.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Can't stand that 'manufactured' music (where they put someone in front of a mike to sing songs they've not written) like Motown, Sinatra, Elvis etc.

Great point.

'Manufactured' music has been around for ever, as have acts that have found fame through talent competitions. The beauty of music today is that there is so much out there that is pretty easily accessed. If all people can be bothered to do is get their music fix from TV talent shows and Good Morning Britain then you get what you deserve. Also there has been some good 'pop' groups to come out of these talent shows, Girls Aloud and 1 Direction are as good at what they do as any other bands have been.

Said it before, but I'd love to be a 14 year old kid into music nowadays as you can find new music and download it within seconds. It's only old farts like us that complain about Simon Cowell ruining music, the kids who are the future of music don't care one bit

 

[JohnnyDee]

Great point.

'Manufactured' music has been around for ever, as have acts that have found fame through talent competitions. The beauty of music today is that there is so much out there that is pretty easily accessed. If all people can be bothered to do is get their music fix from TV talent shows and Good Morning Britain then you get what you deserve. Also there has been some good 'pop' groups to come out of these talent shows, Girls Aloud and 1 Direction are as good at what they do as any other bands have been.

Said it before, but I'd love to be a 14 year old kid into music nowadays as you can find new music and download it within seconds. It's only old farts like us that complain about Simon Cowell ruining music, the kids who are the future of music don't care one bit

A lot of what you say is true but the music per se is not my gripe, I've mentioned historical "music stables" already. My problem is that SC is being given completely free rein to set an agenda that benefits, in the first instance, SC. There's very little altruism in the business model.

Whether the music is pants or not is a matter of pure conjecture. For me it's the cynical manipulation of the market in such a wholesale and oddly unencumbered manner that's the issue.

 

[Hacker Khan]

A lot of what you say is true but the music per se is not my gripe, I've mentioned historical "music stables" already. My problem is that SC is being given completely free rein to set an agenda that benefits, in the first instance, SC. There's very little altruism in the business model.

Whether the music is pants or not is a matter of pure conjecture. For me it's the cynical manipulation of the market in such a wholesale and oddly unencumbered manner that's the issue.

God forbid the music industry being mostly full of ruthless people wanting to cynically manipulate the buying public and take advantage of the bands.

 

[JohnnyDee]

God forbid the music industry being mostly full of ruthless people wanting to cynically manipulate the buying public and take advantage of the bands.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Manufactured music has been around for years (Monkees) but this generation gets the benefit of being pushed via social media to a bigger and instant market. Is Cowell to blame? Probably not, he's just very good at seeing what the next thing to break will be and is ahead of the game. Fortunately there are still some very good bands around, not enough mind, who can write and play but the market would seem to be shrinking. As for these manufactured groups, I'm not sure what legacy they are leaving for those listening in 30-40 years and whether they'll stand the test of time

 

[JohnnyDee]

Manufactured music has been around for years (Monkees) but this generation gets the benefit of being pushed via social media to a bigger and instant market. Is Cowell to blame? Probably not, he's just very good at seeing what the next thing to break will be and is ahead of the game. Fortunately there are still some very good bands around, not enough mind, who can write and play but the market would seem to be shrinking. As for these manufactured groups, I'm not sure what legacy they are leaving for those listening in 30-40 years and whether they'll stand the test of time

Not sure if he's ahead of the game or simply controlling it by virtue of his position.

Previously no smooth operator such as Cowell ever had two massive prime time TV shows at his disposal to enable him to flog his wares.

New Faces and Op Knocks in days gone by benefited the turns themselves.

ITV did not sign, manage or ultimately determine how popular acts and winners were once the cameras went away. It was the raw talent that decided their ultimate successes and longevity. Not a Mr Big like Cowell.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Not sure if he's ahead of the game or simply controlling it by virtue of his position.

Previously no smooth operator such as Cowell ever had two massive prime time TV shows at his disposal to enable him to flog his wares.

New Faces and Op Knocks in days gone by benefited the turns themselves.

ITV did not sign, manage or ultimately determine how popular acts and winners were once the cameras went away. It was the raw talent that decided their ultimate successes and longevity. Not a Mr Big like Cowell.

How long would you say a Band has to be around before you would say they are established or accepted?
Not my taste, but Westlife were signed by SC in 1998, still going and big fanbase, some of the big indy bands from the 80's and 90's have been and gone.