Signing and Returning scorecard Rule 6-6b

[3offTheTee]

Had a slight confrontation with a guy today regarding signing my card BEFORE completion of the round. I usually sign my card before I start playing, one less thing to remember.

If the rule is taken literally I should be disqualified as I should have signed the card after completion of the round

Thoughts please

 

[Old Skier]

6.6 b states that on completion of your round. You broke the rule (although most will have at some time) so it should be a DQ. Never sure why people sign their card early.

 

[duncan mackie]

I don't interpret 6-6b that rigidly in this context. If it wasn't split into 2 sentences I would agree - but it is, so I don't

After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee.
He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't interpret 6-6b that rigidly in this context. If it wasn't split into 2 sentences I would agree - but it is, so I don't

:clap::thup:

 

[chrisd]

I can't see a problem with pre signing but what I do if anyone in my group has a decent card I always ask them to just sit with their marker, check every score individually, the date, tee used, their handicaps and that both have signed the card. It's not unusual to find mistakes at that point and whilst I know some of those on the checklist are not crucial it does breed good habits and has prevented a few players from being dq'd

 

[3offTheTee]

I don't interpret 6-6b that rigidly in this context. If it wasn't split into 2 sentences I would agree - but it is, so I don't

After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee.
He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.

Have you known anyone be disqualified for signing the card before a round? This may sound pedantic and is obviously open for discussion but the 2 nd sentence states" he must ensure that the marker has signed the score card,sign the score card himself".

It therefore follows that he will sign the card after the marker. The only reason I ask is that I have been known to sign my card before I go out and I want to carry on like this.

 

[palindromicbob]

Have you known anyone be disqualified for signing the card before a round? This may sound pedantic and is obviously open for discussion but the 2 nd sentence states" he must ensure that the marker has signed the score card,sign the score card himself".

It therefore follows that he will sign the card after the marker. The only reason I ask is that I have been known to sign my card before I go out and I want to carry on like this.

Technically it is a breech of the rules. It's a bad habit to be in and although I've never seen it penalised it also leaves the card open to tampering. It's not hte biggest issue in golf rules but I honestly can't see why it would be so hard to just remember to sign the card after the round. After all you have the check the damn thing anyway.

 

[Shaunmg]

How can you possibly sign your card acknowledging that the score is correct, before you have a score. To me it is utterly wrong and defeats the whole purpose of signing the card. I have played with people who do, but have to admit I have never challenged anyone for doing so

Not sure what’s hard to understand about the rule saying you sign your card after the round. Again I have to admit, I have been disqualified twice in the last 2 years for forgetting to sign my card

 

[duncan mackie]

Have you known anyone be disqualified for signing the card before a round? This may sound pedantic and is obviously open for discussion but the 2 nd sentence states" he must ensure that the marker has signed the score card,sign the score card himself".

It therefore follows that he will sign the card after the marker. The only reason I ask is that I have been known to sign my card before I go out and I want to carry on like this.

I've not DQ'd anyone for doing so, nor been aware of it by anyone else.

As to your pedantry, it doesn't follow at all. If it had said " he must ensure that the marker has signed the score card, and then sign the score card himself" it would - but it doesn't.

I would DQ someone where it was established that the marker had signed the card before the round, unless they signed it again when they completed it.

and just to complete the picture, I wouldn't DQ someone where the marker failed to record the score on a hole before playing the next one under "After each hole the marker should check the score with the competitor and record it. On completion of the round the marker must sign the score card and hand it to the competitor." either.

 

[duncan mackie]

Technically it is a breech of the rules. It's a bad habit to be in and although I've never seen it penalised it also leaves the card open to tampering. It's not hte biggest issue in golf rules but I honestly can't see why it would be so hard to just remember to sign the card after the round. After all you have the check the damn thing anyway.

please explain exactly how this 'leaves the card open to tampering' because I can't come up with any and I'm pretty devious!

 

[palindromicbob]

Sorry thinking more about when a marker signs the card early rather than the player. I've seen both happen.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry thinking more about when a marker signs the card early rather than the player.

In which case I completely agree, as do the rules

 

[patricks148]

so yo can't sign the card before the round then?

Thats a shame i was going to try that, i might have been solution for the likes of me, with a history of not signing the card.

 

[Region3]

Sorry thinking more about when a marker signs the card early rather than the player. I've seen both happen.

Even if I were to sign a FC's card as his marker before the round, I don't give it back to him until the round is finished so I don't see how it matters, although I always wait until we're done.

Finish the 18th.
Walk away from green.
Add scores up.
Confirm with FC that he agrees with my total for him.
Sign card as marker and hand it over.
Confirm with my marker that I agree with his total for me.
Marker signs my card and hands it over.
I sign my card after checking he's written what he just said.

If anyone wanted to be underhanded or devious, they then have plenty of time to change things on the card before it's entered into the computer and/or put in the box.

 

[bladeplayer]

Personaly Wouldnt see it as DQ offence but i can see how some people would have issues with it

My understanding of the process is you are signing it to confirm you have checked your card & the score your marker recorded for you on each hole, & that you accept it is correct .. you cant possibly do this if you sign the card before you are finished ..

As i said i dont see a problem with it, but can see how some would...

 

[Foxholer]

so yo can't sign the card before the round then?

Thats a shame i was going to try that, i might have been solution for the likes of me, with a history of not signing the card.

For some reason, I don't think that will ever happen again!

 

[palindromicbob]

so yo can't sign the card before the round then?

Thats a shame i was going to try that, i might have been solution for the likes of me, with a history of not signing the card.

Your luck at the minute you'd probably shoot a 73 forget to check the card and return a presigned 78

 

[Shaunmg]

I read every post on this thread, and still unsure. There seems to be differing opinions and interpretations of rule 6-6b to me. We had quite a debate on this in the club house last week after a round, and agreed the rule was bit ambiguous

Can someone give a definitive answer to this question with a Yes or No, Is it a disqualifiable offence to sign your card before the round?

You can have a “technically” yes or no, it’s either Yes or No

 

[duncan mackie]

I read every post on this thread, and still unsure. There seems to be differing opinions and interpretations of rule 6-6b to me. We had quite a debate on this in the club house last week after a round, and agreed the rule was bit ambiguous

Can someone give a definitive answer to this question with a Yes or No, Is it a disqualifiable offence to sign your card before the round?

You can have a “technically” yes or no, it’s either Yes or No

To get a definitive answer you would have to ask the R&A via your club officials and get a ruling.

I have explained in detail above the reasons my answer would be No, but it's not good practice; but I could be wrong

 

[Ethan]

My tuppence worth is that the strict reading of the rules refers only to a signed card. There is no specific procedure for the timing or basis for that signing, other than the implied agreement with the scores noted, so the marker could always argue that in the unlikely event that at the end of the round they disagreed with the score noted, they could always scribble out their signature. The marker can still discharge their responsibility to protect the field.

That assumes the marker holds the card. Signing in advance and giving it back to the player for self-scoring might be a more questionable practice, although that is not the issue here.