Shoulders too open at impact

[Wolfman]

The last few range sessions have shown me the culprit to my pull shot ( i think )

Over the last few weeks i have experimented with one plane two plane swings but have returned to me more connected OPS

However the pull shot was still appearing on nearly every shot how ever hard i tried to swing on an inside line instead of out to in.

My shoulders were very open at impact and when i held them square at impact and saw my rear shoulder pass under my chin the pull was gone and straight shots returned as did better contact on the ball

Does this sound correct ?

Not sure how open they were before but it also semed to keep my spine angle in place for longer too when i tried the above.

 

[bobmac]

The out to in swing is normally caused by the hips turning too early in the downswing. What happens then is the shoulders follow which throws the club outside the line which explains why your shoulders are open at impact

 

[Wolfman]

The out to in swing is normally caused by the hips turning too early in the downswing. What happens then is the shoulders follow which throws the club outside the line which explains why your shoulders are open at impact

Thanks Bob

I thought the hips were supposed to turn well before the shoulders on the start of the downswing ?

So by making sure my shoulders are less open at impact what have i corrected if anything apart from impact and straight shots

 

[bobmac]

Thanks Bob

I thought the hips were supposed to turn well before the shoulders on the start of the downswing ?

I wouldnt think about the hips turning to start the downswing. If you do, you'll have to work hard to stop the shoulders following. It also depends on how much turn and weight transfer you have on the backswing

 

[Foxholer]

Bob,

1. Do you differentiate between one-planers and two-planers? If so would there be slightly different solutions?

2. With regard to your first post, this is an example of what I meant ages ago about identifying the fundamental cause of problem rather the symptoms of it. It's pretty simple to see what is happening, but takes someone like you to identify why. Simply trying to get the shoulders on the target line, without sorting the timing of hips right will cause other issues. However, getting the hip timing right will automatically mean that the shoulders align correctly at impact.

BTW. I would have thought that casting was a fairly common contributor to out-to-in swings too. Or have you grouped that with the direct OTT action - as the hips still leave the arms behind. It seems to me that centripetal force and the failure to counter it until too late - the out to in impact path. - is fairly close to the root cause, but is not the fundamental one as that centripetal force was generated the torque of hips, torso, shoulders and arms. Any thoughts?

 

[Wolfman]

Would the same result be the shoulders going lead shoulder up / back shoulder down instead of rear shoulder moving towards the target line start downswing

This was more the feeling i had left side going up right side going down instead of shoulders turning which stopped them being too open at impact and the club on an outside path

 

[bobmac]

Bob,

1. Do you differentiate between one-planers and two-planers? If so would there be slightly different solutions?

2. With regard to your first post, this is an example of what I meant ages ago about identifying the fundamental cause of problem rather the symptoms of it. It's pretty simple to see what is happening, but takes someone like you to identify why. Simply trying to get the shoulders on the target line, without sorting the timing of hips right will cause other issues. However, getting the hip timing right will automatically mean that the shoulders align correctly at impact.

BTW. I would have thought that casting was a fairly common contributor to out-to-in swings too. Or have you grouped that with the direct OTT action - as the hips still leave the arms behind. It seems to me that centripetal force and the failure to counter it until too late - the out to in impact path. - is fairly close to the root cause, but is not the fundamental one as that centripetal force was generated the torque of hips, torso, shoulders and arms. Any thoughts?

If I remember correctly, Wolfman is still a high h/cap so keeping the advice very simple, very clear and easy to remember is always my aim.

 

[bobmac]

Would the same result be the shoulders going lead shoulder up / back shoulder down instead of rear shoulder moving towards the target line start downswing

This was more the feeling i had left side going up right side going down instead of shoulders turning which stopped them being too open at impact and the club on an outside path

If your shoulders normally spin out at the start of the d/swing, that is what you will feel. The shoulders will feel like they are tilting more than turning towards the golf ball. But you shouldn't have to try and do it, it should happen as a result of a better change of direction from the back to the down swing.

 

[Foxholer]

If I remember correctly, Wolfman is still a high h/cap so keeping the advice very simple, very clear and easy to remember is always my aim.

That didn't answer my questions. Can you do so? A PM might keep this thread tidier.

Keeping it simple strikes me as a good idea whatever the level.

 

[bobmac]

That didn't answer my questions. Can you do so? A PM might keep this thread tidier.

Not tonight, it's wine time and I never mix wine with the forum as it can lead to misunderstandings

 

[Wolfman]

Its true i am a high hcp and wish i wasnt hence the desire to improve

My aim is this year to drop if not i think i will call it a day and look for a simpler hobby !!

Thanks for the explanation guys, simple is always good to save total confusion

 

[Foxholer]

Not tonight, it's wine time and I never mix wine with the forum as it can lead to misunderstandings

So food on the table isn't the only priority!

It's alright anyway as I'm off across the road for my first Abbot, or similar, of the year!

 

[JustOne]

BTW. I would have thought that casting was a fairly common contributor to out-to-in swings too. Or have you grouped that with the direct OTT action - as the hips still leave the arms behind. It seems to me that centripetal force and the failure to counter it until too late - the out to in impact path. - is fairly close to the root cause, but is not the fundamental one as that centripetal force was generated the torque of hips, torso, shoulders and arms. Any thoughts?

If it's any help I was thinking about making some midnight cheese on toast. YUM! :thup:

 

[Foxholer]

If it's any help I was thinking about making some midnight cheese on toast. YUM! :thup:

Do you deliver?

 

[JustOne]

Over the last few weeks i have experimented with one plane two plane swings but have returned to me more connected OPS

So you were 1 plane when we spoke...

Then said you were going to go to a 2 plane swing...

and now you're going 'Plane truth'?

 

[SocketRocket]

It's alright anyway as I'm off across the road for my first Abbot, or similar, of the year!

'First' !!!!

 

[Wolfman]

So you were 1 plane when we spoke...

Then said you were going to go to a 2 plane swing...

and now you're going 'Plane truth'?

Hi James

nightmare i know, 1 plane 2 plane etc etc

I tried both to be sure, 2 plane is physically easier for me but results were mixed, 1 plane was nearer to best results

In the end i think i am a combination of both ! but its back to my original swing and its easier to get consistent results i hope

Your advice was spot on, its my steep downswing caused by turning my shoulders sending the club across the line and steep resulted in the pull shot.

When i feel like the left shoulder goes up at the downswing start i swing more inside and everything is back to straight shots !

Not sure which plan type of swing but your advice nailed the fault just couldnt find a way even with hip shift to stop the right shoulder moving across in the direction of the target line

 

[bobmac]

Have you tried my headcover drill?


[video=youtube;KsrovFJ3o9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]

 

[Foxholer]

'First' !!!!

Yes! I was surprised too! Memories of waking up on the road, having slipped on snow and knocked myself out - on the way over - probably contributed.

Belhaven Rabbie Burns highly recommended! :thup:

Have you tried my headcover drill?

Bob. Similar (but less in this case) issue of 'symptom vs fundamental cause' as one of the questions I asked you the other night. You still haven't answered.

 

[bobmac]

Bob. Similar (but less in this case) issue of 'symptom vs fundamental cause' as one of the questions I asked you the other night. You still haven't answered.

Different people learn in different ways.
Therefor, it makes sense that people teach in different ways.
I know teachers that are big fans of Homer Kelley and have read his book from cover to cover, does that make them better teachers......maybe, maybe not.
You obviously have an interest in the scientific approach to the golf swing. I don't.
I teach by feel, not mechanics. I feel it's a simpler method and doesnt invlove filling the pupils head with mechanical thoughts...hence the headcover drill.