Should He be allowed to compete - transgender part 2

[sweaty sock]

Wonder if this will be as one sided a vote...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/luc-esquivel-transgender-high-school-sports-ban-tennessee

 

[Ethan]

I do not think a female to male transgender transition carries over the same sorts of advantages that the recent female to male swimmer may or may not have benefitted from.

 

[Bdill93]

Absolutely.

 

[PJ87]

Wonder if this will be as one sided a vote...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/luc-esquivel-transgender-high-school-sports-ban-tennessee

This one is a really hard case tbh

When it's a man transitioning to a lady it seems an unfair advantage because men by nature get different bodies to females so can be an advantage in that sport

However when it's the other way wouldn't the person involved be at a disadvantage?

 

[sweaty sock]

My original reaction was that its fine and a bit draconian not to let him play.

Then I thought maybe its double standards allowing female to male to be treated as male, but not allowing male to female to be treated as female.

Then i got confused, its likely that he will be at a significant disadvantage to the blokes, but the hormone treatment will in effect make him a dope cheat for a womens event (that i doubt he would want to enter, but what do i know).

In the female to male case, although it probably limits the ceiling of achievement, i dont think i can find a moral stance against it.

Nor could I agrue against any, trans or not, female who wants to compete against men to be honest.

Again I'd just call it the 'open' category.

 

[GB72]

Have there not been examples of women competing in PGA tour events as one offs. If so, the precedent is set for any sex to compete in male events.

Of the various cases, this is the easiest to deal with as it would be simple to class all male events as open events to allow participation by anyone as there is no clear advantage for non male entrants over the male entrants.

 

[Bdill93]

My original reaction was that its fine and a bit draconian not to let him play.

Then I thought maybe its double standards allowing female to male to be treated as male, but not allowing male to female to be treated as female.

Then i got confused, its likely that he will be at a significant disadvantage to the blokes, but the hormone treatment will in effect make him a dope cheat for a womens event (that i doubt he would want to enter, but what do i know).

In the female to male case, although it probably limits the ceiling of achievement, i dont think i can find a moral stance against it.

Nor could I agrue against any, trans or not, female who wants to compete against men to be honest.

Again I'd just call it the 'open' category.

Im with you, I think if your golfing ability allows you to compete with the rest of the field - crack on!

 

[Crow]

I'd say not, he was practising in a hoodie and ripped jeans. (Not sure what "Chuck Taylors" are but I bet they offend the senses of upstanding citizens too)

 

[GB72]

I'd say not, he was practising in a hoodie and ripped jeans. (Not sure what "Chuck Taylors" are but I bet they offend the senses of upstanding citizens too)

Chuck Taylors are Converse

 

[Ethan]

My original reaction was that its fine and a bit draconian not to let him play.

Then I thought maybe its double standards allowing female to male to be treated as male, but not allowing male to female to be treated as female.

Then i got confused, its likely that he will be at a significant disadvantage to the blokes, but the hormone treatment will in effect make him a dope cheat for a womens event (that i doubt he would want to enter, but what do i know).

In the female to male case, although it probably limits the ceiling of achievement, i dont think i can find a moral stance against it.

Nor could I agrue against any, trans or not, female who wants to compete against men to be honest.

Again I'd just call it the 'open' category.

It isn't so much that it is double standards, it is more about gender-biased advantage. In sports where strength, height or weight are an advantage, male to female transgender athletes carry a residual advantage. In some, the advantage is the other way. If this was a female rugby player planning to transition and play as a man, good luck with that, old chap.

 

[Crow]

Chuck Taylors are Converse

I've had to look up Converse, so they're basketball shoes?

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Separate category for trans people would seem to be a sensible solution.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Separate category for trans people would seem to be a sensible solution.

Two separate categories surely, depending on the type of transition; one trans category would carry the same issues as competing against birth gender athletes?

 

[louise_a]

seperate categories are stupid, I know that there are more transitioned transgendered people than there used to be but the number is still miniscule. In this instance golf is far more about skill than power anyway

 

[sweaty sock]

It isn't so much that it is double standards, it is more about gender-biased advantage. In sports where strength, height or weight are an advantage, male to female transgender athletes carry a residual advantage. In some, the advantage is the other way. If this was a female rugby player planning to transition and play as a man, good luck with that, old chap.

The double standards was less about sports performance. It was about the way people are treat by society. If we say its ok for a transgender man, to do everything as a man, but tell a transgender woman they can't do everything as a woman then arent we treating people differently?

 

[Slab]

I read the article and tried to keep the rights or wrongs of the Bill to the forefront but kept coming back to his age, he's a child.
All this Bill says is that while you're still a child you're required to play on the school team of your birth gender. This Bill doesn't apply to adults... and that might make a comparison to the situation for an adult somewhat skewed

 

[Hobbit]

I voted no but, on further reflection, have changed to yes. My decision to change has nothing to do with gender changes/transitions, I don’t know enough about it to make an informed decision, but is about handicap. The argument about strength/length off the tee, irrespective of age, is negated by handicap.

 

[Ethan]

The double standards was less about sports performance. It was about the way people are treat by society. If we say its ok for a transgender man, to do everything as a man, but tell a transgender woman they can't do everything as a woman then arent we treating people differently?

Well, there is a double standard due to anatomy and physiology. It is not a matter of philosophy or societal acceptability. The advantages/disadvantages brought across gender lines in sport are simply not the same in both directions, they mostly advantage the male to female transgender move rather than the female to male, who will tend to be at a disadvantage in any sport where stature, strength or muscular endurance is a factor.

 

[Crow]

I voted no but, on further reflection, have changed to yes. My decision to change has nothing to do with gender changes/transitions, I don’t know enough about it to make an informed decision, but is about handicap. The argument about strength/length off the tee, irrespective of age, is negated by handicap.

Good point, I didn't read the whole article but if they're playing handicap golf then I'm with you, any advantage will be cancelled by the handicap system.
That's why I'm able to compete with a set of 1950s clubs against people with a bag full of the latest gear.

 

[Orikoru]

I do not think a female to male transgender transition carries over the same sorts of advantages that the recent female to male swimmer may or may not have benefitted from.

This, for me. Feels like a non-issue the other way round since he's unlikely to be obliterating the field as a result of it.