Shots back after winter rules and tees

[Hendy]

Should everyone get them back?

As we all know in the winter, tee`s are pushed forward and you get placements within 6 inch. Well that's what we get at my club anyways.

So point is start of the season should the shot/s you get cut during that time not come back to you,

I did not play much comps over the winter played in say 8 in total got cut by a shot but thinking OK start of season at the club today I will get that shot back but no, they left it. I had heard they might have done this year so part of the reason I only entered a limited number, I did have good cards of 39+ points 6 out of 8 times.

But think that pisses me off is the fact others got there shot/s back, so how can of be one rule for someone and a different rule for someone else?

Don't get me wrong I want to get cut but getting cut on half a course and to land to the course today to find we are playing off the back sticks with 3/4 new tee boxes installed to make it harder kind of pissed me off, when I shot a 65nett 7 over to find I don't even count in the top 3 lol anyways

Just wondering if any of you guys came across this type of thing at your club,

 

[Wayman]

No cuts in winter at my club

I know a local club doesn't similar to what yous does but seems fair if you have had a few decent knocks

 

[doublebogey7]

If your club plays winter competitions from a measured course with an SSS then competitions should be qualifying for handicap purposes. Everyone though should of course be treated the same.

 

[Foxholer]

Should everyone get them back?

As we all know in the winter, tee`s are pushed forward and you get placements within 6 inch. Well that's what we get at my club anyways.

So point is start of the season should the shot/s you get cut during that time not come back to you,

I did not play much comps over the winter played in say 8 in total got cut by a shot but thinking OK start of season at the club today I will get that shot back but no, they left it. I had heard they might have done this year so part of the reason I only entered a limited number, I did have good cards of 39+ points 6 out of 8 times.

But think that pisses me off is the fact others got there shot/s back, so how can of be one rule for someone and a different rule for someone else?

Don't get me wrong I want to get cut but getting cut on half a course and to land to the course today to find we are playing off the back sticks with 3/4 new tee boxes installed to make it harder kind of pissed me off, when I shot a 65nett 7 over to find I don't even count in the top 3 lol anyways

Just wondering if any of you guys came across this type of thing at your club,

Don't be offended, but that post borders on the most ridiculous one, on golf, I've seen on here!

Any difference that Winter Rules make to handicaps is absolutely miniscule. Winter Rules are to make the game 'fair' - as often unrepairable divots appear in fairways where you shouldn't be punished for landing.
Winter tees also allow for the decrease in distances achievable over Winter - and to provide some relief for the 'proper' tees so the course is presentable in Spring/Summer.

Notwithstanding the fact that some don't play over Winter, your handicap is a relative number anyway. Another thread demonstrates that you are not expected to play to it often - on average over a season, more than 25% above it in fact. If you have been cut over Winter, it is because you have improved, relative to other players, as well as probably improved overall, so the cuts should stay. What happens during the Summer, when the course is longer (at least in your head) is to be found out, but this change always produces a bit of 'drama'. What about the guys that didn't play over Winter? Should they get extra shots because they didn't play? Absolutely not!

And it's not any question of sour grapes type of reply btw. Most of the times I've been near the top of fields have either been when tees have been forward - or off Yellow - or have been right back. I think my GIR stats jump hugely when my relatively short driving, for handicap, allows easiier club in, so GIR% can be much higher (forward/Yellow tees) and I'm used to long clubs in to greens, so relatively unaffected by back tees, both in actual distance and, more importantly imo, mental approach to increased length.

I'd challenge you to provide evidence, from your club, of players who have got shots back simply because the course has changed from Winter to Summer mode. There my be some who have been increased from Annual Review which happens around the same time though. This is also why I believe ALL clubs should attempt to have qualifiers over Winter. I believe it's this difference - between clubs and Unions - that produces the greatest inconsistency in handicaps across the Congu jurisdiction.

And remember, that a handicap is to demonstrate your level of ability at golf. It's not there to allow you to win competitions! If you take the latter attitude, you are on the road to the true bandit country - which is cheating imo! Go practice and get used to the longer course and win by increasing you ability, not the number (not actually) associated with it!

BTW. Well played 'today'. shows the cuts were deserved - and another is almost certainly on its way.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

If you're playing qualifiers over winter and the course complies with the conditions required for a qualifier, why would you get your cut shots back? I am completely and totally confused by this post, winter rules makes negligible difference and unless I'm mistaken, you just shot 5 under h'cap?

If your club on the otherhand operates a winter h'cap local to you because you aren't playing qualifiers then that is not official and has to be disregarded for all players when qualifiers start.

Can you clarify if your winter comps are official qualifiers?

 

[evahakool]

The way you posted has come across like sour grapes,as you say you have shot 39+ 6 out of 8 times and shot nett 65 ,"we'll played by the way" and yet you want your shot back.to not play your winter comp.just because you will get a cut is going to leave you wide open to being called a cheat.

 

[duncan mackie]

1. what was the basis of the cuts applied over the winter - were they Q competitions or some club manufactured system that they apply themselves to create 'winter handicaps' which have nothing to do with CONGU?
2. if they were Q based then they stick, if they were club 'inspired' they aren't relevant to CONGU handicapping and as soon as you are playing Q comps again your (all) handicap(s) would revert.

I only mention this as I have come across clubs that do do this!

Which club is this?

 

[beggsy]

Can you refrain from swearing please forum rules now

 

[Hendy]

Its a club in n.Ireland their comps did not fall under GUI and I don't mind the fact I did not shot back just how can they give them back to some and not others

I have asked the question at the club today but never really answered it just said its based on winter scoring.

As a example, one of the holes (s.i 3)with the tee pushed forward for winter was switched to play as a par 3 on winter cards tho this season no winter cards due to cost saving. So you were really getting given a point lol

And always a nice to get a par in the summer months when it played as par 4 as it had a almost 90deg bent after 60/70yards. Winter tee had you at the bent so made the hole one of easiest.

Edit: when you say if they are Q's you mean if its like a comp when you swipe your card and its official as In scores are entered into computer etc then the answer in no. Just filled the card in a dropped it in a box. If you won you get a few quid in your account to get balls etc as its the winter there was limited number of people out

 

[duncan mackie]

Its a club in n.Ireland their comps did not fall under GUI and I don't mind the fact I did not shot back just how can they give them back to some and not others

I have asked the question at the club today but never really answered it just said its based on winter scoring.

As a example, one of the holes (s.i 3)with the tee pushed forward for winter was switched to play as a par 3 on winter cards tho this season no winter cards due to cost saving. So you were really getting given a point lol

And always a nice to get a par in the summer months when it played as par 4 as it had a almost 90deg bent after 60/70yards. Winter tee had you at the bent so made the hole one of easiest.

Edit: when you say if they are Q's you mean if its like a comp when you swipe your card and its official as In scores are entered into computer etc then the answer in no. Just filled the card in a dropped it in a box. If you won you get a few quid in your account to get balls etc as its the winter there was limited number of people out

sounds like the club just does it's own handicapping over the winter when they aren't running Q comps - fine.

however, on that basis everyone should be back playing from their 'proper' handicap when the full course and Q comps resume - any adjustments to those handicaps have to comply with the requlations for clause 23 adjustments.

we run the same thing in parallel to official handicap through the year, both winter and summer, for the swindle players. Handicaps are adjusted in line with success but they all revert to the players official handicap when the clocks change (ie 2 x a year). The reason it's done is to stop people only competing in the money swindles where handicaps can't be adjusted for success.

 

[Siren]

I can only offer my experiance this year.

Saturday evening after work I popped into the club and had a quick pint, I sat next to the captain and the manager who were discussing this years handicap review.

Now I wont lie I had no idea this was done, anyways cut a long story short, my Handicap is not going to be changed. I have worked hard to get cut from 28.0 to 22.4. I know im not the best player in the world but I honestly felt a bit offended by having somehting ive worked so hard for being taken away.

But that may just be me.

 

[Foxholer]

I can only offer my experiance this year.

Saturday evening after work I popped into the club and had a quick pint, I sat next to the captain and the manager who were discussing this years handicap review.

Now I wont lie I had no idea this was done, anyways cut a long story short, my Handicap is not going to be changed. I have worked hard to get cut from 28.0 to 22.4. I know im not the best player in the world but I honestly felt a bit offended by having somehting ive worked so hard for being taken away.

But that may just be me.

While OP seems to be talking about Winter handicaps, I believe the exercise on Saturday was the Annual Review which may adjust handicaps further than what has happened through the system.

 

[rosecott]

Its a club in n.Ireland their comps did not fall under GUI

That's got me scratching my head. If your club is not affiliated to GUI - and therefore handicaps are not official CONGU handicaps - then what handicapping system is used?

 

[rosecott]

I can only offer my experiance this year.

Saturday evening after work I popped into the club and had a quick pint, I sat next to the captain and the manager who were discussing this years handicap review.

Now I wont lie I had no idea this was done, anyways cut a long story short, my Handicap is not going to be changed. I have worked hard to get cut from 28.0 to 22.4. I know im not the best player in the world but I honestly felt a bit offended by having somehting ive worked so hard for being taken away.

But that may just be me.

You've lost me there. You say your handicap has come down from 28.0 to 22.4, the Annual Review recommendation is for no further change, so - what is being taken away?

 

[Siren]

Red wine and confusion is all I can say to explain it. I dont know what im on about myself there.

 

[rosecott]

Red wine and confusion is all I can say to explain it. I dont know what im on about myself there.

Been there, done that.

 

[Hendy]

That's got me scratching my head. If your club is not affiliated to GUI - and therefore handicaps are not official CONGU handicaps - then what handicapping system is used?

Sorry now from last week till September time it falls under GUI.

In the winter on a shorten course with 6 inch placements everywhere including the rough they seem to run it within the club and seems to me they keep some people cut and others get back what they were cut when it moves back to full course and no placement. As stated in the winter there is no computer on to enter score or to sign in just pop the card in the box.

Does not seem to be a thing that happens in most clubs. Only playing 6 years and been playing at the same club so was wondering if this sort of thing happened everywhere.

 

[MadAdey]

To be honest Hendy do you want your shot back? Surely you are trying to get your handicap down, so starting the season a shot lower is just one less shot that you have to tloose to get down to single figures. If you are moaning to get a shot back to give you a better chance in competitions then you are a bandit. So which one is it?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

To be honest Hendy do you want your shot back? Surely you are trying to get your handicap down, so starting the season a shot lower is just one less shot that you have to tloose to get down to single figures. If you are moaning to get a shot back to give you a better chance in competitions then you are a bandit. So which one is it?

I'm not sure this is the real issue (although a valid point). The issue is that cuts are seemingly being made incorrectly and randomly. Any cut has to be made within the rules and if it isn't it affects the fairness and integrity of the system and needs to be put right.

 

[Hendy]

Of course I want to get down, but getting cut on half a course does not feel the same.

But want to do it the right back sticks in GUI comps, I entered a few comps over the winter to support the club. But fully expected to get the shot back.

But surely its not right cutting one and giving someone else a shot back. You could maybe see the clubs point if you have a man playing off 26 HC shooting 45 points week after week,

For me last season I stayed in a round 12/13, had one comp win. But with the course easier over the winter with placement of course I my score will be greater.

Not effected me to much anyways lost out on sat by 3 shots anyways but what if the person that won got 3 shots back lol that would hardly be fair, (for the record that's not the case here but what if it was)

Just making a point and asking if anyone else came across this at there club.