Short vs Long game

[Allanxyz]

I read an article about statistics in golf in Golf Magazine... Says the following on the old adage "drive for show, putts for dough"

"the long game gets short shrift. a typical 90s shooter loses 15 shots per round relative to a scratch player, says Columbia Business School professor Mark Broadie. Nine of those shots are lost from 100 or more yards from the green, versus six shots lost from inside 100 yards. Why? More real estate outside 100 yards means more places to find trouble."

ok, maybe most people's practice is biased towards long game...well from my experience, but I see a lot of people push the short game to beginners on the forum...

Any thoughts?

 

[chrisd]

I read an article about statistics in golf in Golf Magazine... Says the following on the old adage "drive for show, putts for dough"

"the long game gets short shrift. a typical 90s shooter loses 15 shots per round relative to a scratch player, says Columbia Business School professor Mark Broadie. Nine of those shots are lost from 100 or more yards from the green, versus six shots lost from inside 100 yards. Why? More real estate outside 100 yards means more places to find trouble."

ok, maybe most people's practice is biased towards long game...well from my experience, but I see a lot of people push the short game to beginners on the forum...

Any thoughts?

Personally, when I was a beginner I concentrated more on the long game. I figured that the was no point in having a Miickleson short game and Crenshaw putting ability if it took me 12 to get near enough to use them. I probably worked 65/35 on driving and irons to chipping and putting - now it's definitely the other way round.

 

[ScienceBoy]

As soon as you can hit 3 150 yard shots roughly straight out on the course its time to work on the short game.

 

[One Planer]

I personally think it's a balance.

Not just between long and short games but all aspects of our game.

As Chris says, it's no good having Philly Micks short game if it takes you half a dozen shots to get into the scoring zone.

 

[lee_leggett]

My distance control is good a smooth 7 will be 150 total, and nice and straight. I can push clubs a little more but end up hooking. I donot have the distance of most people with irons and woods, but I ALWAYS have a 2nd shot. Keep the ball in play if that means you lose a few yards then so be it.

If your straight with a 3/4 iron then your going to be better with a wedge. Think straight then start to think close. Get your golf swing before you start the pm flops.

I am able to hold my own against longer players who are a little off line from time to time. Just play your game and the scores will drop.

 

[duncan mackie]

"the long game gets short shrift. a typical 90s shooter loses 15 shots per round relative to a scratch player, says Columbia Business School professor Mark Broadie.

Nine of those shots are lost from 100 or more yards from the green, versus six shots lost from inside 100 yards. Why? More real estate outside 100 yards means more places to find trouble."

Any thoughts?

1. not sure where this typicap scratch golfer is that shoots typically shoots 75s - won't be scratch long!
2. probably another example of specific statistics - the scratch golfer playing a typical 7000yd course in normal conditions isn't going to have that many shots within 100 yds that aren't chips (fringe/close) and putts - the 18 handicapper will probably have 18!
3. the large real estate areas don't tend to have the hazards and accuracy requirements generally found around the greens!!! (Merion etc being the exceptions)
4. such statistical analysis is interesting for the bit of thinking it makes you do in relation to your game
and your previous thinking; not the conclusions it brings.
5. the better you can chip/pitch the easier it becomes to make appropriate course management decisions in the long game, and excecute them (less pressure)

 

[woody69]

I read an article about statistics in golf in Golf Magazine... Says the following on the old adage "drive for show, putts for dough"

"the long game gets short shrift. a typical 90s shooter loses 15 shots per round relative to a scratch player, says Columbia Business School professor Mark Broadie. Nine of those shots are lost from 100 or more yards from the green, versus six shots lost from inside 100 yards. Why? More real estate outside 100 yards means more places to find trouble."

ok, maybe most people's practice is biased towards long game...well from my experience, but I see a lot of people push the short game to beginners on the forum...

Any thoughts?

Would be interesting to see what those "statistics" are based on. After all as Duncan has pointed out, if a player is shooting 90 then the scratch player should be gaining more shots than just 15.

TBH I suspect the stats are misleading and unless I saw evidence of how they were collated I'd be wary of them. I would say I am a "typical 90's shooter" and I'm well within 100 yards (on a par 4) after 2 shots 90% of the time unless I have had an absolute mare, just not GIR. More like to within 30 yards somewhere around the green. Problem is most of the time I'm still taking 1 or 2 chips and then 2-3 putts, on average (4 or more shots) to get down from there and picking up doubles. A scratch golfer isn't doing that.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

I'm a high handicapper.
On a 517 par 5 last week my second shot left me with an easy chip to the green over a hazard (ditch).
You can guess where that went.
I did similar on another hole yesterday.
It's all too common for me so I know what I need to practice ( but don't).

 

[Allanxyz]

Would be interesting to see what those "statistics" are based on. After all as Duncan has pointed out, if a player is shooting 90 then the scratch player should be gaining more shots than just 15.

TBH I suspect the stats are misleading and unless I saw evidence of how they were collated I'd be wary of them. I would say I am a "typical 90's shooter" and I'm well within 100 yards (on a par 4) after 2 shots 90% of the time unless I have had an absolute mare, just not GIR. More like to within 30 yards somewhere around the green. Problem is most of the time I'm still taking 1 or 2 chips and then 2-3 putts, on average (4 or more shots) to get down from there and picking up doubles. A scratch golfer isn't doing that.

No idea eaither about how the guy came up with the stats, but from what I read there will be a couple of stats based golf books coming out... apparently lots of pros are using this deep statistical analysis...

I guess everyone is different as you say Duncan, I played in a comp at the weekend and shot 5 over par accross 14 holes, the other 4 holes were 3 quadruple bogies and a double.... the 3 quads included 2 penalties of the tee, a long iron into a tree because of a poor drive... basically trouble of the tee...

I just wonder how many players who shoot in the 90's use the same ball the whole round... and if they do lose one is it around the green or off a long shot... penalties are my biggest issue...

 

[woody69]

No idea eaither about how the guy came up with the stats, but from what I read there will be a couple of stats based golf books coming out... apparently lots of pros are using this deep statistical analysis...

I guess everyone is different as you say Duncan, I played in a comp at the weekend and shot 5 over par accross 14 holes, the other 4 holes were 3 quadruple bogies and a double.... the 3 quads included 2 penalties of the tee, a long iron into a tree because of a poor drive... basically trouble of the tee...

I just wonder how many players who shoot in the 90's use the same ball the whole round... and if they do lose one is it around the green or off a long shot... penalties are my biggest issue...

90% of the time I will end up with the same ball I started with unless I have an absolute mare (which does happen) and yes, when I lose a ball it is of course with my longer irons, fairway woods and off the tee. I still firmly believe I drop more shots from within 30 yards than I do from 100 + though

 

[pendodave]

5. the better you can chip/pitch the easier it becomes to make appropriate course management decisions in the long game, and excecute them (less pressure)

I think that this is a great point. A good short game gives you a lot more options when playing a hole and allows you to even out the inconsistencies/errors in the long game. Good long game players tend to have occasional great games with lots of poor scores in between, whereas those with good short games seem to always be there or there about and are better 'golfers' (as opposed to ball strikers.

I play with a guy who is very similar to me with the long game but on average probably saves 3 shots a round under 100yds and 3 on the greens. So he's off 6 and I'm off 12. About twice a year I nail him gross, all the others he grinds me into dust.

There are a number of comments on thsi forum about 'hitting the ball well, the scores will come'. Strikes me that these sort of golfers are in denial. Until the short game is sorted out the scores will come very infrequently and the 0.1s will come very often....golf is not about hitting the ball well, it's about getting it in the hole.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I play with a guy who is very similar to me with the long game but on average probably saves 3 shots a round under 100yds and 3 on the greens. So he's off 6 and I'm off 12. About twice a year I nail him gross, all the others he grinds me into dust.

Well of course that makes sense, if what you're saying is, we're equal, but he is better than me at one bit. It would be more applicable to this thread if he was worse than you at the long game, but then better at you at short game, then you could compare scores.

For me personally, I've been happy with my short game recently, but the long game is proving key as to when I score well. If my long game works off the tee, then I know I'm on for a good score. too many times though I lose balls off the tee, and no matter how good my short game is, 3 off the tee does not lead to a good score!

I know myself that I need to work on my irons a lot more!

As it happens, I've played my last 2 rounds with a friend who is similar handicap to me, but works a lot on his long game and irons, and neglects his short game, while I've probably done the opposite.

As it happened, the first round he beat me by 11 points, the second he beat me by 9. Really really emphasised to me that the irons are more key than I gave credit!

 

[Simbo]

Stats look a bit dodgy if you ask me!! dont knkw many scratch players that lose only 15 shots to a 90's shooter!!!
i think for high handicappers the long game is as important as the short, keeping the ball in play off the tee will make a massive difference to a 90's shooter. Having a second shot at the green is a huge confidence booster and if they can half the amount of times they have to hack out from behind a tree it will save loads of shots!!

Your long game determines how high you shoot and your short game determines how low you shoot!

 

[In_The_Rough]

I got my long game something like first, no point in being a short game wizard if it takes you 5-6 shots to get to the scoring zone. played with a 20+ handicapper once and he was losing all sorts of shots off the tee with slicing, tops etc but when he got to the green boy could he score. I told him to get his long game sorted by a lesson or two and some deliberate practice, I saw him a month later and he said he had just shot 83 due to finding fairways and less pitch out sideways shots. It shows the importance of the long game in amateurs games not to mention the enjoyment level if you are getting it away off the tee consistently

 

[Allanxyz]

For me personally, I've been happy with my short game recently, but the long game is proving key as to when I score well. If my long game works off the tee, then I know I'm on for a good score. too many times though I lose balls off the tee, and no matter how good my short game is, 3 off the tee does not lead to a good score!

Same for me here... good long game and bad short game then I'm looking at bogies... bad long game and I'm looking at double bogies or worse.

Your long game determines how high you shoot and your short game determines how low you shoot!

Think this is spot on!

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

I'm a high handicapper.
On a 517 par 5 last week my second shot left me with an easy chip to the green over a hazard (ditch).
You can guess where that went.
I did similar on another hole yesterday.
It's all too common for me so I know what I need to practice ( but don't).

Oops - I quoted white tee yardage.
I played off yellow - 486yds on a baked fairway.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Short game. It is all about getting the ball in the hole and if you can chip and putt well then it can turn a disaster hole into a mediocre one, a cricket score into a double bogey and sometimes a double into a par. There has to be an a modicum of skill in getting the ball airborne and forward regularly but once this comes the short game is the money area for getting the handicap cut