Sharing a club

[faroyon]

Hi Guys
In a Stableford today two guys playing together shared a driver because one of them had forgotten his. Total numbers of clubs between them was less than 28.
Penalty or not?
Thanks

 

[Deleted member 15344]

http://golf.about.com/cs/rulesofgolf/a/rule4_2.htm

Partners may share clubs, provided that the total number of clubs carried by the partners so sharing does not exceed fourteen.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 4-4a or b, REGARDLESS OF NUMBER OF EXCESS CLUBS CARRIED:
Match play – At the conclusion of the hole at which the breach is discovered, the state of the match is adjusted by deducting one hole for each hole at which a breach occurred; maximum deduction per round – Two holes.

Stroke play – Two strokes for each hole at which any breach occurred; maximum penalty per round – Four strokes (two strokes at each of the first two holes at which any breach occurred).

Can Partners Share Clubs?

Q. May partners share clubs?

A. Partners may share clubs provided the total number of clubs selected for play between the two players does not exceed 14. For example, if Player A has 6 clubs and her partner Player B has 8 clubs, they may share. A breach of this Rule occurs if both players have 13 clubs and share one`s driver, as the total number of clubs is 26. (Rule 4-4b)

So the simple answer is they were unable to share clubs

 

[faroyon]

Thanks, but they were 'fellow competitors' not partners.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thanks, but they were 'fellow competitors' not partners.

Then definatly can't share clubs

4-4. Maximum of Fourteen Clubs

a. Selection and Addition of Clubs
The player must not start a stipulated round with more than fourteen clubs. He is limited to the clubs thus selected for that round, except that if he started with fewer than fourteen clubs, he may add any number, provided his total number does not exceed fourteen.

The addition of a club or clubs must not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7) and the player must not add or borrow any club selected for play by any other person playing on the course or by assembling components carried by or for the player during the stipulated round.

 

[super hans]

putting aside the 0.1 and 4-4 of the various rules and regulations replied to in this thread - it is quite worrying that this is quite an unknown rule of our game, when it should be one of the first that folk should know walking onto a golf course for the first time....

 

[Old Skier]

Thanks, but they were 'fellow competitors' not partners.

DQ'd

 

[Colin L]

Where does the DQ come from? It’s not in the penalty statement for borrowing another player’s club in breach of Rule 4-4a which tells us it’s 2 strokes for each hole at which there is such a breach with a maximum of 4 strokes.

 

[Canfordhacker]

So if you are FC's, there is a penalty for borrowing a club. Is there a penalty for lending one?

 

[faroyon]

The question I was just about to ask.

 

[doublebogey7]

The question I was just about to ask.

No.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

So the DG is for submitting an incorrect score rather than for the breach of the rule as I assume they didn't apply the correct penalty?

 

[rulefan]

So the DG is for submitting an incorrect score rather than for the breach of the rule as I assume they didn't apply the correct penalty?

There is no DQ

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d.

So it will cost an additional 4 penalty strokes

 

[Old Skier]

There is no DQ

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d.

So it will cost an additional 4 penalty strokes

I presume as it was stableford the player will only get penalised on two holes.

 

[rulie]

There is no DQ

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d.

So it will cost an additional 4 penalty strokes

So that would be 4 penalty strokes per hole, two on each hole for breach of of 4-4a and two on each hole as per the Exception to 6-6d.

In Stableford, he would be dq'd if he failed to report the breach of a Rule for which there is maximum penalty per round before returning his card (see Note 1 to Rule 32-1b).

 

[backwoodsman]

In Stableford, he would be dq'd if he failed to report the breach of a Rule for which there is maximum penalty per round before returning his card (see Note 1 to Rule 32-1b).

Yes, but not in this instance - the note to 32-1b is not applicable (because the exception to 6-6b is).

 

[Old Skier]

Yes, but not in this instance - the note to 32-1b is not applicable (because the exception to 6-6b is).

And this is one of the reasons I was still stuck at our club late today. The more you read the harder to sort out it all becomes.

 

[rulie]

Yes, but not in this instance - the note to 32-1b is not applicable (because the exception to 6-6b is).

Please remind me of the facts of the instance we are discussing? (seems to be several)

 

[Colin L]

A summary of where I think we have got to.

Situation: two players share a driver in a Stableford competition because one had forgotten his. There are two possible outcomes:

The breach of Rule 4-4a is realised before the players return their cards and the Committee is informed:
There is no penalty to the player whose club is being borrowed. If he knows he has committed a breach , the other player must inform the committee of the circumstances before submitting his card [Rule 32-1b Note 1]. 2 points will be deducted from his total for each hole at which the breach occurred with a maximum of 4 points. Assuming, as is likely, that he borrowed the driver on at least two different holes, he loses 4 points from his Stableford score.

The player who borrowed the club does not know this is a breach of the rules until after returning his card and informs the Committee before the competition closes.
The player is in breach of Note 1 of Rule 32-1b for which the penalty is disqualification. In my view, because he was ignorant of the breach, the Exception to Rule 6-6d applies and instead of disqualification he incurs the original penalty (2 points per hole, maximum 4 points) plus 2 points deducted for each of the two occasions on which the breach occurred. 8 points in total.

There is, however, a different view being held that the Rule 6-6d exception does not apply here (because of the last sentence of the Exception) and that the player should be disqualified. The matter has been under some discussion in another forum and an official ruling is being sought. I’ll let this forum know what the official word is when it comes through. Or, I’m sure, Rulefan will if I fall asleep on the job.

 

[backwoodsman]

Please remind me of the facts of the instance we are discussing? (seems to be several)

Colin says it for me in post #18. And yes there was a typo in mine - should have read 6-6d.
And i agree with Colin's view that the exception 6-6d still applies despite the final sentence of the exception.

The exception to 6-6d covers situations where a player returns a score too low because he did not know he had breached a rule and therefore did not know he had to add a penalty. In stableford he does not add a penalty. He has to advise the committee that a breach has occurred, so that they can apply the penalty. If he does not know there's been a breach, how can he advise them? Therefore how can it be equitable to still require disqualification?

I am of the opinion that the final sentence of exception 6-6d refers to those situations where the original (but unknown) breach of a rule carries a penalty of disqualification - playing from outside the teeing ground perhaps. For instance, a player gets a ball into a hole in five shots but started from outside the teeing ground. He didn't know he'd committed a breach, so recorded a 5 without adding the required 2 stroke penalty. But, as he didn't know he'd committed a breach, he also did not correct the mistake and play from within the teeing ground - which carries a disqualification. The final sentence of the exception means he is still disqualified - and his score not changed up to a 9 (5 plus 2 penalty plus 2 additional penalty)

 

[rulefan]

Or, I’m sure, Rulefan will if I fall asleep on the job.

I'm away for a week tomorrow, so keep awake.