Sex discrimination in golf

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
4,539
Next someone will be complaining it is unfair they cannot play their ball once it has crossed an internal out of bounds. They paid for the privilege, their ball is still on the course, so screw what the rules said. I'm entitled to play that ball. Or, perhaps they say that is not an issue, as they hold the Rules of Golf in higher esteem than the Rules of the Club.

At the end of the day, if the club has rules, then at least have the respect to stick to them. By all means question them, but it is not for you to change them or ignore them. Otherwise you are simply a golfer who just be treated with little respect. Clubs can rate ALL their tees for both men and women. Some have, some haven't, some may do in the future. If they haven't, then for handicapping at least, it would not be appropriate for ladies to play off men only rated tees and vice versa. If they were not submitting a card for handicap, then I'm sure men or women could realistically play off any tees they wish. I've seen men play off reds, I've even seen ladies play off whites. Rare, but it has happened, and I certainly wouldn't charge down to them and tell them to play from elsewhere. However, if social play from the whites was prohibited by the club, then that should be respected. They will no doubt do this to not only protect the tees, but to limit the potential of groups playing slower rounds in amongst other golfers off more forward tees.
 

patricks148

Global Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
23,025
Location
Highlands
My only experience of gender issues on tees at nairn has been with women. We are rated for both sexes on all tees and added an extra shorter set of tees when the course changes were implemented. Before we had red (ladies) yellow (men daily) white(medal) blue (championship). There were no set rules where you could play from and both sets up to white for both sexes, the blue tees were only ever out when there was a comp on they were to be used for.. when the course changes were first done the club did away with gender spec tees and there were no longer" ladies" tees. A few of us played a mini hickory match and used the red tees, were were pulled up on several occasions by women for using their tees. Since then we have silver (forward) green (former ladies) blue( old mens daily) white (medal) Black (championship). the seniors section this year moved to using the greens for their games and who complained but the ladies section for using their tees.. personally I have no issues with players using the tees they want within reason, for instance using the whites when it will have an effect on the players behind for pace of play or its way beyond their ability, but if you have paid a lot of money to play and you want to get the full experience, fair enough but just let people through.
 

GreiginFife

Money List Winner
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,454
Location
Dunfermline, Fife
From an administration point of view does it work for ladies to play off different tees in a comp?

We ran a trial last year where ladies could use either Red or Yellow tees (big, big difference on several holes (the reds on the first are 50 yards forward of the yellows and 60 yards on the 18th) and whilst some of the lower handicap ladies (of which there are few) were happy enough to play from the yellows the vast majority of ladies still played from the reds. And so to my question, could a comp be set-up that in a field of 100 ladies 90 played from the reds and 10 played from the yellows?

As an aside when offered the option to play from whites no ladies thought that would be enjoyable and so opted out of that.
 
D

Deleted member 16999

Guest
From an administration point of view does it work for ladies to play off different tees in a comp?

We ran a trial last year where ladies could use either Red or Yellow tees (big, big difference on several holes (the reds on the first are 50 yards forward of the yellows and 60 yards on the 18th) and whilst some of the lower handicap ladies (of which there are few) were happy enough to play from the yellows the vast majority of ladies still played from the reds. And so to my question, could a comp be set-up that in a field of 100 ladies 90 played from the reds and 10 played from the yellows?

As an aside when offered the option to play from whites no ladies thought that would be enjoyable and so opted out of that.
Our midweek comp is open to all members, Men off whites, Ladies off Red, this is only because Tees were initially rated in that way, we are currently going through the process of having all Tees rated for all, gender free.(y)

We don’t get many ladies entering the midweek comp, but the system has no issue handling the seperate set up.
 

harpo_72

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
5,280
I totally understand anybody deciding how to spend their money, but I don’t see the link between that and females being told were to play regardless of money.

All tees should be gender free and all Clubs should reserve the right to open or close any tee as they see fit.

We are not allowed to use our White Tees out of competition, is it annoying? Sort of, but I knew that when I joined and I accept it.

As for the bit in bold, there is a time and place for that way of working, but it’s not how the Military train, infact, to use a cliche, you could risk lives and discussing it afterwards could be too late.
Perhaps I need to qualify that, with I usually have all the information that is readily available… and I pretty much know what I don’t know plus experience dating back to before computers had mice
 

DaveR

Head Pro
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
1,691
From an administration point of view does it work for ladies to play off different tees in a comp?

We ran a trial last year where ladies could use either Red or Yellow tees (big, big difference on several holes (the reds on the first are 50 yards forward of the yellows and 60 yards on the 18th) and whilst some of the lower handicap ladies (of which there are few) were happy enough to play from the yellows the vast majority of ladies still played from the reds. And so to my question, could a comp be set-up that in a field of 100 ladies 90 played from the reds and 10 played from the yellows?

As an aside when offered the option to play from whites no ladies thought that would be enjoyable and so opted out of that.
The senior section at my club have recently trialled competitions played from both yellow and red tees, each player chooses and marks their card accordingly. So I think the answer to your question is (or will become) yes.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
4,539
From an administration point of view does it work for ladies to play off different tees in a comp?

We ran a trial last year where ladies could use either Red or Yellow tees (big, big difference on several holes (the reds on the first are 50 yards forward of the yellows and 60 yards on the 18th) and whilst some of the lower handicap ladies (of which there are few) were happy enough to play from the yellows the vast majority of ladies still played from the reds. And so to my question, could a comp be set-up that in a field of 100 ladies 90 played from the reds and 10 played from the yellows?

As an aside when offered the option to play from whites no ladies thought that would be enjoyable and so opted out of that.
Technically, yes, IF both sets of tees have been rated for ladies of course. If so, adjustments would be made to their handicaps to take into account the differences in Course Ratings and the Slopes.

Not surprised most ladies prefer playing off the reds though. At our last club, many of the Seniors comps were off yellows, as apparently many of the Seniors refused to play off whites.
 
D

Deleted member 16999

Guest
Wrong. But if you feel tough now, fair enough.

At least Phil responded like an adult. Thanks for that, Phil.
Tough! Grow up, there’s nothing I wouldn’t say on here I wouldn’t say to your face.

You want to explain post #296 and show me his response!

No answer to post #301 either, just an edit to my response to harpo.

Never you, always the victim.
 

GreiginFife

Money List Winner
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,454
Location
Dunfermline, Fife
Our midweek comp is open to all members, Men off whites, Ladies off Red, this is only because Tees were initially rated in that way, we are currently going through the process of having all Tees rated for all, gender free.(y)

We don’t get many ladies entering the midweek comp, but the system has no issue handling the seperate set up.
That’s not really the question I was asking. We too have mixed comps. All ladies play from one place and all men from one place.
My question was around ladies playing from different tees within the same comp not two different sections playing from different tees.
 
D

Deleted member 16999

Guest
That’s not really the question I was asking. We too have mixed comps. All ladies play from one place and all men from one place.
My question was around ladies playing from different tees within the same comp not two different sections playing from different tees.
Apologies if I confused you, that’s part of the reason we are having the Tees re-rated to allow the ladies the option.👍🏻
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
1,082
Location
Leicester
I've seen a LET player at my course a few times this year. She plays from the whites like me. But some people think that she should have to play off the reds because she is a woman? And she's being disrespectful by turning up as a visitor and playing off the whites instead of the reds? The course is over 1,000 yards shorter off the red tees, but yes she should know her place and stick to where she belongs. The kitchen :rolleyes:
Just after the first lock down, we had a very famous LET and LPGA tour player visit our course, she shot 68 off the whites. I've only heard pride from our member's that she chose to visit our members club and no critisim of her playing off the "men's tee's.
 

GreiginFife

Money List Winner
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,454
Location
Dunfermline, Fife
Technically, yes, IF both sets of tees have been rated for ladies of course. If so, adjustments would be made to their handicaps to take into account the differences in Course Ratings and the Slopes.

Not surprised most ladies prefer playing off the reds though. At our last club, many of the Seniors comps were off yellows, as apparently many of the Seniors refused to play off whites.
In this scenario, how would the system know that one lady played off reds and another off yellows within the same comp?
 

Kellfire

Blackballed
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
7,581
Location
Leeds
Tough! Grow up, there’s nothing I wouldn’t say on here I wouldn’t say to your face.

You want to explain post #296 and show me his response!

No answer to post #301 either, just an edit to my response to harpo.

Never you, always the victim.
Why do you need your replies to be validated? People that have liked those posts clearly see some merit to my points. Maybe ask them because I’m not in the habit of explaining my every thought to someone who is just trying to be argumentative in the typical “play the man, not the ball” way.
 

Kellfire

Blackballed
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
7,581
Location
Leeds
He may be wrong but without doubt your posting style puts so many people's backs up and Paul is quite correct on that matter
Well in this case I asked Phil a question and while the tone of his response was a tad petulant at least he responded. Which is more than you or Paul above had contributed to my points. So hey ho.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
4,539
In this scenario, how would the system know that one lady played off reds and another off yellows within the same comp?
When the player registers for the round, they will be registered to a particular set of tees. Personally, I've not played in any comps where ladies (or men) can play of different sets of tees, so not sure how the admin works within the various ISVs in terms of how the club set it up, and what the player sees when registering if they have the option to pick the tees. If you genuinely need to know from a club admin side, there is a thread on the Expert Forum in which you should get a pretty quick answer.
 

chrisd

Major Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
23,735
Location
Kent
Well in this case I asked Phil a question and while the tone of his response was a tad petulant at least he responded. Which is more than you or Paul above had contributed to my points. So hey ho.
Like many on here I see your posts and try to ignore them, just occasionally I feel the need to say what I feel when I read something you've written. I do the same when Phil gets on his high horse but let's be fair, you dont give a stuff what anybody thinks of your views and debating with you is pointless.
 
Top