Senior stableford scoring system...help...

[rapper]

We run a weekly senior fiddle at our club an our scoring systems seems to be a little harsh and could be keeping players away ,ie some club handicappers of 18 sometimes get down to 14 and pro rata...I know they must have won the money on a regular basis but it stops them competing and it takes ages to get any points back, do you work any systems that are fairer than ours or do you have any advise please ?this is how we score..
winner minus 1 full point off handicap, if its a score of 40 points plus 2 full points taken off.
2nd place minus 0.5
3rd place minus 0.3
If you achieve 30 or more points you get 0.1 back
29 points or under 0.2 back
We have a for the best player over the period April through September and we score as follows
1st 10 points
2nd 8pts
3rd 6 points
4th 5
5th 4
6th 3
7th 2
8th 1
and all the others 1 point
15 results count
Can you advise on a fairer system

 

[Fyldewhite]

Seems very complicated. Do you work for CONGU?

Why not simply deduct 2 points off the winner and 1 point off the runner up each week for the rest of the "season". If the winner of week 1 (say) comes runner up the following week with his 2 points off then he's then having 3 deducted from the following week onwards etc. Soon evens everything out and stops same people winning week after week. If you are saying that once they have the deductions in place they lose interest then they are missing the point of having a bit of a fun comp aren't they?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

The 9 hole members night at my old club had the following:

1 shot off for every shot better than 20 points

3 shots off for the winner
2 for the runner up
1 for the 3rd place

This was all done in 2 groups for the men, 0-14 and 14-28

Worked well. Some people could get cut 6 shots in one night, but I never heard much complaining! It is only a fun round, and it's quite good for making you think abuot the course in a different way! I played with a 10 handicapper who was down to scratch in these rounds, and he pointed out it made him think more about the holes than he normally did!

 

[delc]

Seems very complicated. Do you work for CONGU?

No, not complicated enough! :mmm:

 

[Foxholer]

No, not complicated enough! :mmm:

I'm amazed you haven't a suggestion for changes to those Rules!

 

[louise_a]

We have a simple system for our winter comps, winner gets minus 1, 2nd -1/2. these then get reset after Christmas.

 

[delc]

I'm amazed you haven't a suggestion for changes to those Rules!

The USGA and EGA hanicapping systems have a better statistical basis than the CONGU system, which seems to have been designed on the back of a fag packet 10 minutes before closing time, and then made much more complicated! :mmm:

P.S. The EGA (European Golf Association) system seems to combine the best bits of CONGU and USGA. As we are (more or less) part of Europe, perhaps we should adopt that?

 

[Colin L]

We have the simplest possible system. We just use our handicaps: it works.

 

[delc]

We have the simplest possible system. We just use our handicaps: it works.

What is simple about 5 divisions (including ladies), all with different h/cap reduction multipliers, different buffer zones, variable CSS, ESR's, general play reductions etc, etc?

 

[Colin L]

That's not what I described as simple. How handicaps are arrived at is a very different matter from what I was referring to - the application of your playing handicap to games. It is unquestionably simpler just to use players' CONGU handicaps from game to game than to have a system of adjustment after each game according to who won. It may not be what you decide to do, but it is simpler.

Such adjustments seem based on the notion that because a player wins one day it is necessary to put in an extra hindrance to his winning the next. It could be argued that the normal uncertainties of golf and the inevitable inconsistencies of our play provide hindrance enough and make that sort of complication unnecessary but I think you would need to do an analysis over a period to see if that is the case. On an unscientific basis, I see a satisfactory spread of winners just by using our handicaps.

 

[delc]

That's not what I described as simple. How handicaps are arrived at is a very different matter from what I was referring to - the application of your playing handicap to games. It is unquestionably simpler just to use players' CONGU handicaps from game to game than to have a system of adjustment after each game according to who won. It may not be what you decide to do, but it is simpler.

Such adjustments seem based on the notion that because a player wins one day it is necessary to put in an extra hindrance to his winning the next. It could be argued that the normal uncertainties of golf and the inevitable inconsistencies of our play provide hindrance enough and make that sort of complication unnecessary but I think you would need to do an analysis over a period to see if that is the case. On an unscientific basis, I see a satisfactory spread of winners just by using our handicaps.

The Tuesday group of which I am a member within our club just uses more or less the CONGU system to run its handicaps. However, because we play every week, it works quite well. My main objection to CONGU is that it only requires 3 returns a year to keep a valid handicap, and these 3 returns may not be at all representative of a player's standard of play. If I took my 3 worst scores of the last year my handicap would be about 23, and with the 3 best scores about 7. It's actually 10.6 btw. It is a bandit's charter!

 

[TheJezster]

Personally I think the handicap system works quite well, I dont see why there is talk to change it. Yes if you are improving it might take a while to catch up, but it will catch up. This is nothing that any other system would have issues with I imagine.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Seems a bit OTT. In our Saturday roll-up, if you win you play off of your club handicap-2 for the next 3 weeks that you play and if you come 2nd it's club handicap-1 for 3 weeks.

If you win or come 2nd while playing off of a cut, the new cut is added to the existing one and the 3 weeks starts again.

 

[Colin L]

If I took my 3 worst scores of the last year my handicap would be about 23, and with the 3 best scores about 7. It's actually 10.6 btw. It is a bandit's charter!

Curious, I would have thought if you had posted your 3 worst scores of last year, your handicap would have gone up by 0.3 and you would no have an exact handicap of 10.9, leaving you still with a playing handicap of 11. i must be missing something

By the way, you see the EGA system as much better than CONGU (let's leave the USA out of it - that's way different!). In what significant ways does EGA handicapping differ from CONGU?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That seems the same as our sat roll up - some people with club handicaps of 24 end up playing off 14 by the end of the year

Everyone seems happy with it :thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Can you advise on a fairer system

either leave it alone or require that a players every other card is required to be submitted as a supplemental (to the limits of the handicapping rules obviously)

 

[delc]

Curious, I would have thought if you had posted your 3 worst scores of last year, your handicap would have gone up by 0.3 and you would no have an exact handicap of 10.9, leaving you still with a playing handicap of 11. i must be missing something

By the way, you see the EGA system as much better than CONGU (let's leave the USA out of it - that's way different!). In what significant ways does EGA handicapping differ from CONGU?

But if had only ever put three cards in to get an initial high handicap and then 3 deliberately poor cards per year.....
Must be some way bandits can score 45+ points in open competitions and Society days? Anybody with a proper handicap doesn't have a chance!

 

[Foxholer]

My main objection to CONGU is that it only requires 3 returns a year to keep a valid handicap, and these 3 returns may not be at all representative of a player's standard of play. If I took my 3 worst scores of the last year my handicap would be about 23, and with the 3 best scores about 7. It's actually 10.6 btw. It is a bandit's charter!

A further demonstration that you only have enough knowledge about the Congu, US and EGA systems to be dangerous!
The vast differences that you mention are actually more likely to happen with the US system than with Congu!

Colin was actually keeping On-Topic and describing a simple method of applying handicaps to a mixed group, not how to calculate them in general. If you want to discuss Congu vs US vs EGA, start another thread!

The problem I see with simply using handicaps is that some groups (and older Seniors are a classic) playing ability can change faster than Congu can adjust (an area where the US system has advantages over Congu imo) so those folk end up with no hope of being competitive - which is the purpose of the OP. One swindle I was in several years ago had been going for 25 years and had its own system involving results and money won (at £1 entry) the greatest variance from 0 was by an original member who had the putting and chipping yips and had lost £45 over the 25 years - £25 of which he made up when he won 2 days in a row after overcoming his yips - using the claw grip for both! I've lost track of the exact details, but you lost/gained a shot every time you went through an £8 won/lost amount as well as being cut for winning, coming 2nd (if there were more than a certain number of players) and getting more than 36 points - quite an achievement as most were playing off 5 or more below club handicap (I actually got down better than scratch a couple of times in this group which triggered a re-asessment each time). Written down like this, it seems complicated, but it worked pretty well - the better/static players widening the gap between the declining/poorer ones quicker than Congu handicaps (and at that club there was only 1 or 2 qualifiers a month and then only in about 7 months!).

Before all Seniors comps were made qualifiers at another club, they also had a system where 1st and 2nd lost 2 and 1 shot resp and anyone scoring less than 29 points got 1 back. Declining ability guys were still quite competitive in that regime!

 

[Colin L]

Yes, when you consider how slowly your handicap adjusts to a decline in ability, it makes sense to have a means of dealing with that in a particular group/society. I was thinking too narrowly of the people who win.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Colin was actually keeping On-Topic and describing a simple method of applying handicaps to a mixed group, not how to calculate them in general. If you want to discuss Congu vs US vs EGA, start another thread!

Where's the double face palm image when you need it