Scottish women don't play golf !!

[6inchcup]

Did anyone else hear the stupid woman on the bbc this morning claim that less women play golf in scotland than any other part of europe,because a few clubs have men only membership,now this is surly just clutching at straws or jumping on the current band wagon, could any of our Scottish friends who have daughters tell us if they and their friends play golf,and if not why?,is it because they don't have an interest in it,or as said because a club miles away has men only membership and they think it is wrong even though the club within a mile or so from you or the one your a member at would welcome them,with all the other sports and interests open to everyone now are young girls that interested in golf.

 

[duncan mackie]

I thought PD was very restrained at a couple of points, and is clearly extremely well aware of the arguments and facts.

The points being scored under the guise of questions were all taken in his stride. In fairness they have been raised before!

 

[DCB]

Well, Womens golf is certainly alive and well in the Lothians. It seems to be in fairly good health in other parts from what I've seen in recent years as well

 

[duncan mackie]

Well, Womens golf is certainly alive and well in the Lothians. .....

It is, and was accepted as being so - she tried to use the % of golfers in the area that were women as an indicator, rather than the % population which is the absolute figure. Basically a cheap shot.

 

[jp5]

So why is the percentage of women playing golf in Scotland lower than the rest of Europe?

 

[duncan mackie]

So why is the percentage of women playing golf in Scotland lower than the rest of Europe?

it isn't - what's lower is the % of players that are women.........driven more by the (very) significant % of men who play golf in the area being discussed than a low actual % of women playing.

(according to the discussion on air this morning)

 

[jp5]

it isn't - what's lower is the % of players that are women.........driven more by the (very) significant % of men who play golf in the area being discussed than a low actual % of women playing.

(according to the discussion on air this morning)

Okay, badly worded question - yes what I meant is why is the % of female players lower in Scotland. I understand that there is a higher than average % of men playing in Scotland, but why should this phenomenon not extend to women?

 

[Mungoscorner]

When you have backward, stuck in the mud organisations such as the hceg running competitions such as trhe open, you will always be open to criticism.
Golf needs to rid itself of this outdated biggoted pish.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Okay, badly worded question - yes what I meant is why is the % of female players lower in Scotland. I understand that there is a higher than average % of men playing in Scotland, but why should this phenomenon not extend to women?

I saw this interview and I thought it was very good. Hazel seemed to express the issue more eloquently than other interviewers I've seen (some of whom, I agree, couldn't care less and are just looking for an argument) and even Peter Dawson spoke well and convinced me that he does actually "get it".

Incidentally, I'm sure the use of "stupid woman" in the OP was trolling but compare Hazel's interviews after the end of play today with those of the "stupid man" they had wandering around babbling inanities (don't remember his name, sorry); night and day!

I think you've got to the nub of the question here. Of course there are "lies, damned lies and statistics" but this one is interesting and deserving of proper consideration rather than being dismissed out of hand as due to a higher number of male golfers in Scotland. The point is that in a country that is rich in golf courses, where there is clearly a large interest in playing the game proportionally less women play than our European neighbours. I'm interested in why that it is.

Obviously sport in general and golf in particular is more attractive to men than women for participation. Is there a "saturation point", an upper limit of the number of people in a population (male or female) who might play, that has been reached in terms of scottish females? I don't think so. (DCB - I'm very interested in what you base your assessment of the health of the women's game in the Lothians on because, as a pretty active player in the area, it's not one that I share. Admittedly I'm relatively new "on the scene" so maybe am not properly connected yet.)

Then I thought, we have a lot of public courses and perhaps that's not true on the continent so golfers there have to join clubs while we have more nomads. Except I played these courses regularly a few years back before joining a club myself and I genuinely don't remember ever seeing another woman other than myself and my friend. I'm sure others do play there but not in any numbers to make this answer likely. In fact, if anything this would skew the numbers even more due to the high proportion of men playing these courses.

Which takes me back to the inevitable. Are Scottish clubs less welcoming to women than those in Europe? Perhaps! They certainly could do better, in my opinion.

Any other possible explanations for this interesting statistic?

 

[Sweep]

On my regular trips to East Lothian I have to say that I have always been impressed at how many women play golf, many I note off the yellow tees. I was always under the impression that golf was more popular with women in Scotland. Certainly more than England. I am really disappointed to learn that any statistic can show that the opposite. Maybe I have just played at the clubs that attract women. Certainly on several occasions at Kilspindie - which I accept is a shorter course - there have been ladies comps on and a girls comp on at least twice while I have been there. As for the reasons why fewer women play golf, I have no idea, but I doubt it is because a very few clubs don't allow women members. No matter how high profile. (I understand ladies can play at Muirfield, just not join). The answer must be more at grass roots level.

 

[DCB]

One thing to remember, before she went down south with her job, Hazel played out of Cardross G C and played to a decent mid teen handicap. So she does understand club golf in Scotland.

 

[patricks148]

Isn't it just a factor that less women play sport than men full stop. Take football for instance we have about 40 pub and club teams in Inverness but only one womens team.

So its not just golf.

Though when my club has a ladies open, which it did a few weeks ago, it had a full field with tee times from 7.30 right though to the last at 5.30 all used up.

 

[jp5]

Isn't it just a factor that less women play sport than men full stop..

Yes, but that percentage is lower in Scotland than anywhere else. We are trying to get to why that is.

 

[Birchy]

Theres not enough people playing golf under the age of 30 full stop imo. I see a decent amount of youngsters (16 and under) playing at different places that ive played but barely anybody men or women 16-30. I notice this more as im in this age bracket and I often think looking around good god everybody is either half my age or double it

I didn't start golf until late either as it just wasn't accessible enough imo. The thought of joining a golf club barely knowing anybody is daunting especially when you are new to the game and spraying the ball all over the place. The prices for people of this age group are also pretty ridiculous considering they are likely to be towards the bottom end of the food chain work wise and starting their rise up the ladder career wise.

We need to get more younger people into the game from both sexes imo. A young woman would definitely fell very uncomfortable at most golf clubs and this is where the problem stems from imo.

 

[MegaSteve]

I dislike 'arguments' based on statistics as you can more or less skew any statistic to support any point of view...

If anyone thinks that equality means 50% of everything which some seem to think [with regard to Westminster especially] then they are sadly deluded...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I find this a strange statistic, perhaps it has been 'bent' to suit the argument.

FD probably has the best answer in that Scotland has significantly more municipal courses [pro rata] than other European countries.
My authority, South Ayrshire, has eight which is more than the South West of England.
I could disagree with myself and say that the municipal courses in SA at Troon, Ayr, and Girvan have ladies sections with good membership numbers.
Girls golf has been neglected in the past but Clubgolf seems to be addressing that problem.

 

[duncan mackie]

I find this a strange statistic, perhaps it has been 'bent' to suit the argument.

I don't think it's been bent - but, as already posted, I think there's more to it and as Peter Dawson said, it's that that needs to be understood rather than concluding it's related to the membership policy of certain clubs.

I suspect the statistics being referenced would be these - http://www.bgia.org.uk/infocentre/europe

 

[Foxholer]

I think you've got to the nub of the question here. Of course there are "lies, damned lies and statistics" but this one is interesting and deserving of proper consideration rather than being dismissed out of hand as due to a higher number of male golfers in Scotland. The point is that in a country that is rich in golf courses, where there is clearly a large interest in playing the game proportionally less women play than our European neighbours. I'm interested in why that it is.

Ah. The old mis-leading statistics issue - of which you may well have been 'guilty' of in a semi-related thread.

Didn't see/hear the items, so I have a few questions.
So is the percentage of Females playing Golf in Scotland as high (or even higher) as elsewhere in the rest of Europe, but 'just' not as high as Males in Scotland. Is the funding from R&A for Junior allocated differently by sex? If so, in what proportion? And what about the contribution from the Sottish Government - same questions apply.

However the funds are allocated, there will be the potential for an argument to be made that it is being done 'unfairly'! What is important is to encourage ALL kids to take up the game - which is what ClubGolf is about. Nothing like that in England unfortunately. Possily done with English supplied money though, but that's a different debate!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Ah. The old mis-leading statistics issue - of which you may well have been 'guilty' of in a semi-related thread.

moi? Surely not.....

 

[FairwayDodger]

Though when my club has a ladies open, which it did a few weeks ago, it had a full field with tee times from 7.30 right though to the last at 5.30 all used up.

I've entered an open at one of the "better" courses in Edinburgh. It's one of the few ladies individual opens held on a weekend. The draw sheet is out and they have got thirteen entrants. Still a few weeks so hopefully they'll get more before then but pretty disappointing at the moment....