Scorecards for WHS (what to include)

[Swango1980]

I asked this on another thread, but easy to get lost in the general topic.

I'm looking at designing our scorecards in preparation for WHS. What will other clubs include. Things such as:

• Slope Rating for each Tee (Definitely)
• Course Rating for each tee (most likely, looking at some examples online)
• Bogey Rating for each tee (probably not)
• Slope Ratings / Course Ratings for each 9 holes? We are an 18 hole course, but noticed we do have this information on the certificate
• Handicaps? We will include boxes for Index, Course and Playing. Having looked at a Spanish example, they simply have Playing and nothing else. I think all 3 will reduce confusion for players
• Will you also have the common Strokes Received box in Handicaps, or do you think Playing Handicap can simply be used to accommodate that, whether comp organisers put any other restrictions on handicaps for example, beyond the general guidelines.
• Anything else

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Like you i'm a bit confused as to what to recommend to the club.

I think slope & course rating per tee is a given
My inclination would be to have 3 boxes for handicap (HI, CH & PH). In this way you have proof that they have applied all the necessary adjustments.

Our situation is we have 3 9s which also make up 3 18s in combination. We never play the same 9 twice for an 18 hole competition. Therefore my inclination would be to stick with only 18 hole figures for the 3 combined course and only 9 hole figures for each of the base courses. However, I'm really struggling to see how this will fit onto a combination card which we currently use in a clear and logical way.

 

[Swango1980]

Like you i'm a bit confused as to what to recommend to the club.

I think slope & course rating per tee is a given
My inclination would be to have 3 boxes for handicap (HI, CH & PH). In this way you have proof that they have applied all the necessary adjustments.

Our situation is we have 3 9s which also make up 3 18s in combination. We never play the same 9 twice for an 18 hole competition. Therefore my inclination would be to stick with only 18 hole figures for the 3 combined course and only 9 hole figures for each of the base courses. However, I'm really struggling to see how this will fit onto a combination card which we currently use in a clear and logical way.

Indeed, looks a lot more complicated for you.

I'm redesigning ours in an excel template we had previously. Sticking Slope and CR for the 18 hole Whites, Yellows and Reds is no problem, and will probably just stick with that. I guess it becomes more cluttered if there is ever a situation were the course is then measured for women off whites and yellows and men off reds, as that would double up the measured courses. As for the individual 9's, I think that is information overload (I don't think even the Index Conversion Boards will have these).

Perhaps just displaying our Slope / CR certificate at various places in club will give people to see the 9 hole values if they ever need them.

Definitely putting in the Index / Course / Playing handicaps in. It leaves no doubt for the player which handicap they are putting in the box. Otherwise, I can see players getting confused, and not putting the right value in. It will happen anyway, given that players still make mistakes when putting simple things in like their Name, so need to make it as clear as possible.

 

[jim8flog]

Team handicap if you run things like Texas scrambles

Take a careful look at your Slope indexes and decide if the information needs to be more clear on the card eg somewhere other than the scoring side of the card.

Take the opportunity for a redesign if appropriate.

I have played quite a few courses where they only had columns for 3 players and not 4, some with columns so narrow that in social games there was insufficient room for gross score and stableford points. Remember to set the width of the card so it fits in a scorecard holder. Large box for total stableford points/ result to make scorers job easier.

 

[IanM]

Reading this makes my head hurt!!

I look forward to receiving a scorecard printed on A3 card with all this guff on it!

 

[Grant85]

I asked this on another thread, but easy to get lost in the general topic.

I'm looking at designing our scorecards in preparation for WHS. What will other clubs include. Things such as:

• Slope Rating for each Tee (Definitely)
• Course Rating for each tee (most likely, looking at some examples online)
• Bogey Rating for each tee (probably not)
• Slope Ratings / Course Ratings for each 9 holes? We are an 18 hole course, but noticed we do have this information on the certificate
• Handicaps? We will include boxes for Index, Course and Playing. Having looked at a Spanish example, they simply have Playing and nothing else. I think all 3 will reduce confusion for players
• Will you also have the common Strokes Received box in Handicaps, or do you think Playing Handicap can simply be used to accommodate that, whether comp organisers put any other restrictions on handicaps for example, beyond the general guidelines.
• Anything else

Personally would recommend not including the 9 hole ratings on the main scorecard. Potential to cause confusion and be even busier than it has to be.
Suggest having separate cards that people can request or you can dish out when competitions are played over the relevant 9.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I've seen a couple of tweets about clubs getting their slope tables, which would suggest that perhaps all this info is available at the club, but not necessary on the card.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288761676968398848

I think I've added a link above

 

[jim8flog]

Indeed, looks a lot more complicated for you.

As for the individual 9's, I think that is information overload (I don't think even the Index Conversion Boards will have these).

Perhaps just displaying our Slope / CR certificate at various places in club will give people to see the 9 hole values if they ever need them.

.

I assume you do not run 9 hole comps. We currently have a separate card for 9 holes comps but the need for such will disappear with the WHS and one of the niceties is we will no longer have to have separate 9 hole comps for ladies as the slope rating has been done for both sexes on the yellow tees.

The Slope tables certainly should have them. Ours vary between 109 and 116.

 

[jim8flog]

Reading this makes my head hurt!!

I look forward to receiving a scorecard printed on A3 card with all this guff on it!

Not a lot of difference really (we should have had a box for handicap index though)

Our old card



Our new card

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not a lot of difference really (we should have had a box for handicap index though)

Our old card

View attachment 31816

Our new card

View attachment 31817

Can I ask, why do you have columns for players, A, B, C, D and also the marker? That would suggest 5 in a group, which there obviously would not be. Could you not drop one column, D?, or circle who was the marker? Not important, it just seems odd.

 

[IanM]

Not a lot of difference really (we should have had a box for handicap index though)

Our old card

View attachment 31816

Our new card

View attachment 31817

Blimey... that looks too easy!! Can't be correct!

My cousin has a sign writing business, I tipped him off some time back about the need for boards on the 1st Tee for doodah-tables! Wonder if he go into it?

 

[jim8flog]

Can I ask, why do you have columns for players, A, B, C, D and also the marker? That would suggest 5 in a group, which there obviously would not be. Could you not drop one column, D?, or circle who was the marker? Not important, it just seems odd.

Not odd in my view, in fact common practice. I have seen it on most cards where I have played. It is simply done for clarity on the card particularly when there is only one player and a marker and or when a marker needs to keep track of his or his own teams score in a team game where they may be 4 players in a team eg 4 man scramble or Bowmaker.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not odd in my view, in fact common practice. I have seen it on most cards where I have played. It is simply done for clarity on the card particularly when there is only one player and a marker and or when a marker needs to keep track of his or his own teams score in a team game where they may be 4 players in a team eg 4 man scramble or Bowmaker.

I haven't seen that many columns before on a card which is why I asked. I get A, B, C and D names and then Marker plus A, B and C score columns but not as per your card. It is not a problem, better to have extra than less, it was just something I have not noticed before.

I don't quite get why it adds clarity for 1 player and a marker?

Edit: just got home and looked at some old cards. My own club just has A and B, plus marker but a couple of other clubs nearby have the same as yours. I'm sure you are right and most do the same. I must be more observant in future ?

 

[jim8flog]

I don't quite get why it adds clarity for 1 player and a marker?

Under normal circumstances A marker is not a player as far as that card is concerned and any scores in that column can be ignored by the scorer.

In the current environment we use the markers column so the player, marking his own card, can record the markers score for verification if needed.

Having been the scorer on many an occasion you would be surprised at how many players shown on the card as player A have put their scores in another column.

 

[Swango1980]

Not a lot of difference really (we should have had a box for handicap index though)

Our old card

View attachment 31816

Our new card

View attachment 31817

Why does your new card still have SSS, or is that just until November?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Not a lot of difference really (we should have had a box for handicap index though)

Our old card

View attachment 31816

Our new card

View attachment 31817

So the handicap is the Course Handicap and the strokes received the Playing Handicap?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Under normal circumstances A marker is not a player as far as that card is concerned and any scores in that column can be ignored by the scorer.

In the current environment we use the markers column so the player, marking his own card, can record the markers score for verification if needed.

Having been the scorer on many an occasion you would be surprised at how many players shown on the card as player A have put their scores in another column.

Many apologies for my stupidity. I was lying in bed last night, my brain processing and de-cluttering the day. The clarity of what I'd written plus the clarity of your replies suddenly fell into place ?. Having not swapped a card for 5 months my brain went into tunnel vision mode and I couldn't see outside of that.

Ignore my posts, I'm shuffling away feeling very foolish.

 

[Swango1980]

Remember different course and slope ratings for each gender on each set of tees....

We only have our course measured for Men on yellows and whites, women on reds. Although, we will state Men and Women for clarity, rather than just rely on the colour of the box on the card

 

[jim8flog]

Why does your new card still have SSS, or is that just until November?

The cards are in use now hence SSS is on the card

 

[jim8flog]

So the handicap is the Course Handicap and the strokes received the Playing Handicap?

I was not fully involved with the new cards. l suggested to the person responsible that we needed 3 but the the order was placed the day we found out.