LIV Golf

[Ethan]

People do realise the pga was formed because in the 1960s golfers who toured felt they were playing against weak fields for not enough share of the tv money. So broke away to form another organisation, for the best players, who would share all the money....

Also worth note it was re united with the main organisation pretty quickly with all the cash distributed as they requested.

The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history...

That wasn't the same, though. That was largely a separation between players who were largely club pros and those who weren't. And the LIV Tour is not a breakaway of the best players.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

I dont think they tee off until 9pm

You're right - my bad. They're showing Centurion again.

But 3.5k watching Centurion again - it was bad first time round!!

 

[Bdill93]

That wasn't the same, though. That was largely a separation between players who were largely club pros and those who weren't. And the LIV Tour is not a breakaway of the best players.

Granted theve not got current top 10 talent - but im not having the fact that they dont have some of the best players in the world.

Multiple major champions who until joining LIV would have been in conversations at any Major this year.

Its only a 54 man event, they're never going to get 1-54 are they!

 

[Mel Smooth]

People do realise the pga was formed because in the 1960s golfers who toured felt they were playing against weak fields for not enough share of the tv money. So broke away to form another organisation, for the best players, who would share all the money....

Also worth note it was re united with the main organisation pretty quickly with all the cash distributed as they requested.

The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history...

Pelley actually attended a meeting in Malta a couple of years ago to discuss creating a new tour with the people that now run LIV. Apparently he suggested a round in Saudi, which might explain the relative quietness about the source of LIV funding from the DPWT?
One thing for sure, professional golf is going through huge changes, which despite the hopes of some on here, won’t ever go back to what we’ve become accustomed to.

 

[Ethan]

Granted theve not got current top 10 talent - but im not having the fact that they dont have some of the best players in the world.

Multiple major champions who until joining LIV would have been in conversations at any Major this year.

Its only a 54 man event, they're never going to get 1-54 are they!

I didn't say they haven't got some great players, and may get more, but it is not a breakaway of the great players to get away from the mediocre ones. Liv has quite a few people who wouldn't get recognised if they stood next to a Tour bag with their name on it.

On the big names, Phil Mick is done, he won't win any more majors or PGA Tour events, BdC looks increasingly like a fairground attraction but could win some events if they set them up for him with 100 yard wide fairways and 8000 yards length, Kopeka could still win, Schwartzel could still win at Augusta, Oosthuizen could possibly still win, but he has started to look like he finds there is too little oxygen when majors come down to the last round. DJ seems to have been told by his missus she is fed up travelling to places like Michigan and Tennessee.

 

[Ethan]

Pelley actually attended a meeting in Malta a couple of years ago to discuss creating a new tour with the people that now run LIV. Apparently he suggested a round in Saudi, which might explain the relative quietness about the source of LIV funding from the DPWT?
One thing for sure, professional golf is going through huge changes, which despite the hopes of some on here, won’t ever go back to what we’ve become accustomed to.

Obviously going through changes, for sure.

But I think we all want to see the best players play each other. You need regular rivalries, Jack vs Palmer/Miller/Trevino etc, Tiger vs Phil, etc. That won't happen with 2 Tours. So unless you think that the LIV Tour is going to consume the PGA Tour, and have the DPWT as a side dish, then what is the end-game?

 

[woofers]

With 55 players already signed up though there's likely to be some competition for the 54 places. It's not as if players need a break from the few exhibitions already scheduled.

Its only a 54 man event, they're never going to get 1-54 are they!

Hey Guys, my understanding was that it’s only 48 players at a time, when did they add the other 6 and how does that fit into teams of 4?

 

[sweaty sock]

I didn't say they haven't got some great players, and may get more, but it is not a breakaway of the great players to get away from the mediocre ones. Liv has quite a few people who wouldn't get recognised if they stood next to a Tour bag with their name on it.

On the big names, Phil Mick is done, he won't win any more majors or PGA Tour events, BdC looks increasingly like a fairground attraction but could win some events if they set them up for him with 100 yard wide fairways and 8000 yards length, Kopeka could still win, Schwartzel could still win at Augusta, Oosthuizen could possibly still win, but he has started to look like he finds there is too little oxygen when majors come down to the last round. DJ seems to have been told by his missus she is fed up travelling to places like Michigan and Tennessee.

I dont think the point was about the best players breaking away, I think the point was about players breaking away for the money....

Obviously going through changes, for sure.

But I think we all want to see the best players play each other. You need regular rivalries, Jack vs Palmer/Miller/Trevino etc, Tiger vs Phil, etc. That won't happen with 2 Tours. So unless you think that the LIV Tour is going to consume the PGA Tour, and have the DPWT as a side dish, then what is the end-game?

2 tours would work fine, Some players winning on the pga, some winning on the liv, all come together at the majors... its basically how it already works. How often were tiger vs phil actually at a pga event together

 

[Ethan]

I dont think the point was about the best players breaking away, I think the point was about players breaking away for the money....


2 tours would work fine, Some players winning on the pga, some winning on the liv, all come together at the majors... its basically how it already works. How often were tiger vs phil actually at a pga event together

The PGA Tour broke away for the money, certainly, but it was also the best players breaking away from the club pros, like the Premier League breaking away from Championship and League One teams.

It wasn't players who can no longer win on the PGA Tour, or players who have never won on it, breaking away. The current situation is Aston Villa and Leeds along with QPR, Sunderland, MK Dons and Wycombe Wanderers breaking away to set up a new league where they play for 70 minutes and the game is louder.

 

[Depreston]

Got my eye drops ready

Remember whatever you do

Don’t blink

 

[Bdill93]

I didn't say they haven't got some great players, and may get more, but it is not a breakaway of the great players to get away from the mediocre ones. Liv has quite a few people who wouldn't get recognised if they stood next to a Tour bag with their name on it.

On the big names, Phil Mick is done, he won't win any more majors or PGA Tour events, BdC looks increasingly like a fairground attraction but could win some events if they set them up for him with 100 yard wide fairways and 8000 yards length, Kopeka could still win, Schwartzel could still win at Augusta, Oosthuizen could possibly still win, but he has started to look like he finds there is too little oxygen when majors come down to the last round. DJ seems to have been told by his missus she is fed up travelling to places like Michigan and Tennessee.

Legit besides about 10 players on the PGA tour the same thing could be said.... The average Joe wont recognise Scheffler or Morikawa. I do agree however that of the 5 biggest names (PIP 2021) in world golf - LIV does only have 2. They have 4 out of the top 10.

I literally would not count out a single one of the LIV players, Phil included, at majors. He won one more recently than Rory

 

[Ethan]

Legit besides about 10 players on the PGA tour the same thing could be said.... The average Joe wont recognise Scheffler or Morikawa. I do agree however that of the 5 biggest names (PIP 2021) in world golf - LIV does only have 2. They have 4 out of the top 10.

I literally would not count out a single one of the LIV players, Phil included, at majors. He won one more recently than Rory

The planets aligned for Phil at Kiawah. It won't happen again. Happy to offer a modest wager on Rory vs Phil in majors.

Not sure Joe TikTok would recognise DJ or Bryson, and they certainly won't recognise Charl Schwartzel. Phil, maybe, but he is old enough to be their Dad or granddad.

None of the LIV Tour players in the top 40 or so in the OWGR are in a higher position than they were at the end of 2021, and some have fallen quite badly.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Interesting pre round interview from Brooksie.
?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1542527070273564672

 

[Foxholer]

Pelley actually attended a meeting in Malta a couple of years ago to discuss creating a new tour with the people that now run LIV. Apparently he suggested a round in Saudi, which might explain the relative quietness about the source of LIV funding from the DPWT?
One thing for sure, professional golf is going through huge changes, which despite the hopes of some on here, won’t ever go back to what we’ve become accustomed to.

What allegedly happened 2 years ago is absolutely unimportant save the fact that nothing appears to have specifically come from it - save rumours and innuendo. At an old club, I used to play frequently with a retired President/CEO of a huge software company who regularly played with his equivalent in competing companies.

 

[Foxholer]

Interesting pre round interview from Brooksie.

Where can I send the bill for the time wasted watching that? C/0 LIV Pumpkin Ridge?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1542493208873164807

 

[Backsticks]

It's only my perception of the 'strategic alliance', I actually hope it's the opposite of what I think but I just don't see the additional mutual benefits to the DPWT. But, as to how I'm perceiving it, how is DP a loser in anyway?... because:

* DPWT was probably the second best show in town in terms of field quality - it's now third. This weekend, despite it being the Irish Open (my home Open), it will be 4th. Because some of the best players in the world (9 of the top 10) are playing at Adare Manor. At Mount Juliet top billing belongs to Shane Lowry (very supportive of his home Open) and Alex Fitzpatrick because he's someone's brother.
* PGA Tour has increased stake in European Tour Productions (now 40%), giving up some control is only good as long as the plan is clear. The lack of clarity about what this means is slightly worrying, I can concede this might lead to better publicity for the DPWT in the USA, but only to the extent I believe it will be hyping the incoming 'talent'
* Access to the Barracuda and Barabosol tournaments..... events coincidentally on at the same time as the DPWTs prestigious Scottish Open and The Open, but sure DPWT players will bite our hands off to play rather than playing in the Scottish Open, because....
* PGA Tour co-sanction the Scottish Open to ensure their membership have access to FED EX points and massive purse money the week before the Open. And there's space because the DPWT players aren't playing because they're enjoying 2 weeks in the USA
*"DP World Tour members will now have direct and formal access to the pinnacle of men's professional play on the PGA TOUR". No mistaking who the boss is here.
*Top Ten players in the DPWT rankings earn PGA Tour cards for the following season - excellent! - except in practice, because other events count than actual sole DPWT events (the WGC events and the Majors and the Co-Sanctioned events) so based on last year this would have resulted in cards being handed to Nicolai Hojgaard. And that's it. So the Top 10 DPWT Rankings is dominated by PGA Tour players by season end already but even if there is a potential rising star he immediately gets away to pastures new and untold riches.
*All of the above signed away until 2035!

Is the DPWT a loser.... maybe not, but I don't see them as winners and at best they are standing still. They had an opportunity to come to the table and make a move - morally it might have been wrong, but it absolutely would have given them some bargaining power with the PGA Tour to strike a better deal. I just don't like words like 'enhance' or 'expansion' in the press release because it's misleading; the reality is it is all (okay, mostly), to the benefit of the PGA Tour.

Thanks for the full reply. Your buttom para sums it though, which was my point. It may be no better off. But we agree it isnt a loser, which is where I thought you were too harsh. Quite aside from the Saudi threat, the Euro tour lost the battle to even keeping on the coat tails of the PGA years ago. Some deeper cooperation is what is should have been doing anyway.

Many of the points you make are correct, and highlight that the PGAT is the senior partner in the deal. But that is the reality of it, and it doesnt follow that the deal harms DP.
Much better to have a big strong friend when there is a new bully in town, than trying to take on the big strong guy and the new bully.

 

[Backsticks]

Difficult seating plan for the Champions dinner come next April !

 

[Hobbit]

Just an off the cuff thought. Imagine if the Saudi money had ‘bought’ the European Tour instead of creating the LIV Tour. With the attraction LIV has created, imagine if those players were joining the European Tour… it worked for Man City…

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just an off the cuff thought. Imagine if the Saudi money had ‘bought’ the European Tour instead of creating the LIV Tour. With the attraction LIV has created, imagine if those players were joining the European Tour… it worked for Man City…

Didn’t the Saudi money already try that but got turned down ?

And most of the players have already at some points played in ET events over the years

But I would hope a major tour wouldn’t be paying £4mil to an Amatuer just to play in events