Rules question - order of play.

[MashieNiblick]

Cheers Duncan.

I just don't get where this idea comes from that there was a time recently when if 2 players tied the order didn't change even if they both scored lower than the player who had the honour on the previous tee.

 

[williamalex1]

Cheers Duncan.

I just don't get where this idea comes from that there was a time recently when if 2 players tied the order didn't change even if they both scored lower than the player who had the honour on the previous tee.

I assure you, thats the way it used to be many years ago. you stayed in the middle position till you won a hole outright ,when the player who had the honour lost it , he went to the end. . maybe it was different elsewhere but thats the way it was played when i started playing in the seventies, up until the nineties

 

[rosecott]

Not relevant to the current discussion but:

When we play a club match at the home course of one of our neighbouring clubs (4-ball better ball matchplay), they insist that the honour rotates hole by hole until one side wins a hole.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Well, there you go. I've been playing club comps in 3 balls since about the mid 80's. We never so far as I am aware ever played it that way in my neck of the woods. Thinking about it, before then I played mostly 2-balls so it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[duncan mackie]

I assure you, thats the way it used to be many years ago. you stayed in the middle position till you won a hole outright ,when the player who had the honour lost it , he went to the end. . maybe it was different elsewhere but thats the way it was played when i started playing in the seventies, up until the nineties

I can sort of understand why people interpreted the rule that way prior to 1984, when the rules were completely re-written/structured with a greater focus in stroke play. At that time the current wording came in.

Prior to that, lets take the 1976 version to see what happened - it was rule 12 in those days...

[h=3]Rule 12. The Honour[/h] 1. The Honour
a. Match Play
A match begins by each side playing a ball from the first teeing ground in the order of the draw. In the absence of a draw, the option of taking the honour shall be decided by lot.
The side which wins a hole shall take the honour at the next teeing ground. If a hole has been halved, the side which had the honour at the previous teeing ground shall retain it.
b. Stroke play
The honour shall be taken as in match play.

Now the reason for this wording was - 1. the game was matchplay (still!) and 2. it was played as a 2 ball (4 people played foursomes) in both formats. This is reflected in the concept of only 2 people in the above wording.

against this background, if 3 people were playing strokeplay the question of the honour would be decided between each as a match, not amongst all of them as one match. the result is effectively the same: you tee off ahead of anyone you beat, the same order with anyone you match and behind any one who beat you.

Overall this thread has clearly illustrated that what's done, and what the rules say in this area, are not necessarily the same thing!

 

[Foxholer]

the honour in stroke play first entered the Rules of Golf in the 1908 rules edition (to come into force from 1.1.1909) under rule 1 of the Special Rules for Stroke Play Competitions section.

nothing changed until the 2008 rules edition which added the exception to rule 10-2 referencing 32-1 in relation to the honour in handicap bogey, par and Stableford competitions.

32-1 states "In handicap bogey, par and Stableford competitions, the competitor with the lowest net score at a hole takes the honour at the next teeing ground."

it makes absolutely no reference to stableford points

My heavens! Another day goes by and this thread still hasn't been put to bed!

Lowest nett score is equivalent to highest stableford points btw, so either will do. But you are correct; The Rules only mention 'lowest nett score'. Of course, The Rules are worded to avoid duplication/ambiguity.

 

[Pro Zach]

Thanks Duncan.


It is clear from the R&A answer that the popular answer on here was correct and how I was taught and was trying to argue is incorrect.


It is probably difficult for people who have only seen it as it should be to understand why it was misinterpreted. But if you were playing under the old rule 12, where someone had to win the hole, and the new wording was introduced, I think it is reasonable to interpret it the wrong way. It would be reasonable to assume someone had to still have the lowest score and the new wording was to clarify who went 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 3[SUP]rd[/SUP],and 4[SUP]th[/SUP]. It would be easy to think the new wording was just to accommodate the introduction of individual stoke play, and the principle of someone having to have the lowest score to take the honour remained.


It is also clear that Mashie has never played it that way yet me and Williamalex1 have. So perhaps it was interpreted differently in different areas. Obviously some people are still doing it the wrong way because Kellfire wrote in post #25:- “Iteed up on the fifth only to be told by Player A to get on my bike and wait my turn because I hadn't won the previous hole outright(because C also had a 3) thus we retain order of him before me.” It is perhaps relevant that Kellfire is in Middlesbrough and I previously played all my golf in the North East.


I'm not bothered what order I tee off or what method is used to decide, but it would be preferable if everyone uses the same method. I played the wrong way for 7 years and have just started playing the right way so I am probably biased, but at the moment I slightly favour the wrong way. Because it was harder to win the honour it seemed to mean more to have it. Now I often feel I have the honour because someone lost it, not because I won it. It was also slightly simpler because it changed less often. Perhaps when I get more used to it my opinion will change.

 

[Pro Zach]

In the interests of sanity and the eradication of slow play, I would have expected that all of them picked up without holing out as they couldn't score points. The order of teeing off would therefore remain unchanged from the previous tee.

What you expect and what actuallyhappens aren't necessarily the same thing.


As an example, the first hole at my course is a par 4 with oob on the right. If I slice 2 drives oob I would play 5 off the tee even though I can't score points. You might expect me to pick up and walk the first thinking about 2 sliced drives in preparation for the par 5 second with oob on the right, but I'm not going to. I'm going to play it, try to calm down, and have a couple of putts in preparation for the rest of the round.

 

[williamalex1]

What you expect and what actuallyhappens aren't necessarily the same thing.


As an example, the first hole at my course is a par 4 with oob on the right. If I slice 2 drives oob I would play 5 off the tee even though I can't score points. You might expect me to pick up and walk the first thinking about 2 sliced drives in preparation for the par 5 second with oob on the right, but I'm not going to. I'm going to play it, try to calm down, and have a couple of putts in preparation for the rest of the round.

has no one played a game called skins.each player has to put in say a pound per hole. you have to win the hole on you own, to win the money and honour, or the stake money carries on, and on with every player putting a pound in at every hole, till its won outright . then it starts over again. it's allmost the same format.

 

[Kellfire]

Played in the midweek roll up last night. Two different playing partners, same error. This time I stood my ground and explained it to both of them...

 

[danny1]

Why does anyone care about order of play? Doesn't matter a hoot unless it's matchplay

 

[williamalex1]

so you think so ...in this club championship play off scenario, which position would you prefer 1st, 2nd.or3 rd . on the 18th tee. all 3players tied .The last hole has .oob. on the right, oob on the left . A ditch , just about your carry distance on a dry runny day.[stroke play]

 

[Imurg]

Although still strokeplay, a playoff is, in effect, a matchplay scenario so order of play is important.
In normal strokeplay the order doesn't really matter.