tobybarker
Active member
In a pairs or team event such as a scramble, is your team mate not allowed to make suggestions as to the line of a putt? Nor are they allowed to stand behind you when you putt? Have I read that right?
Rule 10 disallows team-mate help?
- Thread starter tobybarker
- Start date
Neilds
Assistant Pro
In pairs with they can certainly give advice - rules 22, 23 and 24 apply. Scrambles aren’t covered so things are up to the committee
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Not only is the partner not allowed to stand behind the player for putting they are not allowed to stand behind to gain information about the shot for all shots (New Rules (2023) 22.6 and 23.8.
Colin L
Tour Winner
A scramble isn't in rules terminology a team event. The 3 or 4 players are partners in a side just as the two players in a four ball are partners in a side. If, apart from the necessary divergences for the format, a scramble is played to the rules, whatever is said that partners can and cannot do will apply. Giving each other advice would be permissible.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
As much as you aren’t allowed to stand behind your partner to see the line of a putt, you can (unless this is in the changes I haven’t fully absorbed) stand the other side of the hole to get the same information.
IslaG
Member
For our club charity / fun tournament days when play is teams we put Model Local rule H5 in place because we realise that players are going to read each others putts and give advice anyway.
H-5 so we may as well make it allowed
Advice: Team Members in Same Group
Purpose. Under
Rule 24.4c
, in stroke play where a player's score for the round counts only as part of the team's score, the Committee can adopt a Local Rule allowing team members playing in the same group to give each other advice even if they are not partners.
Model Local Rule H-5
"
Rule 10.2
is modified in this way:
Where players from the same team are playing together in the same group, those players may give advice to and ask for advice from each other during the round."
H-5 so we may as well make it allowed
Advice: Team Members in Same Group
Purpose. Under
Rule 24.4c
, in stroke play where a player's score for the round counts only as part of the team's score, the Committee can adopt a Local Rule allowing team members playing in the same group to give each other advice even if they are not partners.
Model Local Rule H-5
"
Rule 10.2
is modified in this way:
Where players from the same team are playing together in the same group, those players may give advice to and ask for advice from each other during the round."
rulie
Head Pro
As Colin has said above, team members and partners are not the same and behaviors are governed by different Rules. The first thing that players and Committees need to sort out who is which, then conform to the respective Rules and Local Rules.
tobybarker
Active member
Thank you.
tobybarker
Active member
It seems odd to disallow standing BEHIND a player when they are putting but not the other side of the hole. In any case, you could stand just to the side of a player and lean out so you were effectively behind them, so still getting a good bead on their putt. Come to that, just step in behind them once the ball is in motion..... Silly rule IMHO
salfordlad
Well-known member
This is true, no constraint on standing on the other side providing you are not there to provide an aiming point.
rulie
Head Pro
Or just go and attend the flagstick?
D-S
Well-known member
So this begs the question, why does this rule exist?
doublebogey7
Head Pro
I'm not sure you'll get the definitive answer on here as the Rule makers don't visit. I am guessing it's to avoid caddies/partners lining players up for the shot.
D-S
Well-known member
That makes sense as it was a bugbear of many in Professional golf.
rulie
Head Pro
From the documentation for the changes introduced in 2019:
Golf's New Rules: Major Changes
New Rule: Under Rule 10.2b(4):
We believe that an appropriate line is drawn between allowing advice from a caddie and prohibiting the caddie from being involved in directing the player in the act of taking a stance to play the ball.
Golf's New Rules: Major Changes
New Rule: Under Rule 10.2b(4):
- The previous prohibition is extended so that, once the player begins taking a stance for the stroke, and until the stroke is made, the player’s caddie must not deliberately stand on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball for any reason.
- There is no penalty if the caddie accidentally stands on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball, rather than in trying to help in lining up.
Reasons for Change:
- Allowing a caddie to stand behind a player taking a stance so as to direct the player how to line up undermines the player’s need to use his or her own alignment skills and judgment.
We believe that an appropriate line is drawn between allowing advice from a caddie and prohibiting the caddie from being involved in directing the player in the act of taking a stance to play the ball.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
There was a time when you were not allowed to stand on the line and the line extended beyond on the hole.
Following an incident with John Daly's caddy on the final hole of his first PGA win the authorities decided that the line would no longer extend beyond on the hole.
Restrictions on standing on the line is also used in other rules so it easier to make one rule to cover all situations.
