Rooney Rule

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In recent weeks Gordon Taylor has been suggesting that Football introduce a rule like the Rooney Rule they have in the NFL

This is the Rooney Rule

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule

Over the years the country has been blessed with some outstanding footballers of all colours and race

Yet you only see White managers bar the odd one or two like Paul Ince

Are clubs discriminating against minorities ? Does the rule bring in positive discrimination ?

Are players scared or not bothering to apply for jobs because they believe they have no chance of getting the job due to the colour of their skin ?

What are people feelings on the proposed rule ?
 
Positive discrimination is still discrimination and is not on in my book, regardless of the objectives trying to be achieved.
 
c1973 said:
Positive discrimination is still discrimination and is not on in my book, regardless of the objectives trying to be achieved.
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Agree 100% you cannot pick someone just because of the colour of his skin just like you cant not pick someone.

If someone is good enough they will get work
 
Pathetic rule IMO.
Black man doesn't get a managers job so obviously it's racism :confused: rubbish.
Oh & Paul ince is a terrible manager.
 
For clarification - the Rooney isn't saying black managers should get picked

It's saying that when people are interviewed for a role a percentage must be of a minority if they apply.
 
Unless you're the Dallas Cowboys who got away with hiring Jason Garrett on a technicality because he was named interim head coach and then given the job full-time about a week later without interviewing anyone else. The Rooney Rule, named for Pittsburgh Steelers' owner Art Rooney, is a PR sham at best.
 
If a Chairman didn't want to hire someone because of skin colour how is making them interview them going to help??
Look at the varied nationalities of club owners,I hardly think it's a race issue.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
.....but if you look at the number of coloured players in the English leagues against the number of coloured managers you could also say that is racist.
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You would have to ask the owners about that, but to actually insist on choosing someone even if its just to short list them based on skin colour is a bad and discriminatory idea
 
I would just hope the best person for the job was chosen. It isn't as if there hasn't been coloured players involved at the top end representing players (Clarke Carlise and Brendon Batson) but Ince aside who has really put themselves forward as managers
 
Doon frae Troon said:
.....but if you look at the number of coloured players in the English leagues against the number of coloured managers you could also say that is racist.
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No you couldn't say that. You could say that it was a possible reason, along with several other possible reasons.

Oh, and why just the English leagues? What are the percentages in other high profile leagues?
 
Pathetic Shark said:
...PR sham at best.
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I'm with you on this!

If the Owner/Board is racist, then it's highly unlikely the 'minority' is going to be selected, so a waste of time and money.

If the candidate is not as well/better qualified /suited than the others, then it's discrimination!

What should be happening is that FA, and others, encourage, or even provide incentives for, 'minorities' to get appropriately qualified, so they can compete equally for the roles!

Of the nearly 200 Pro License holders, only 14 of them are Black! So that's where I see the problem starts! Last year, 5 of them had jobs. That's actually a slightly higher percentage than would have been expected!
 
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I like the idea and the thinking behind this proposal. Should anyone get a job based on race or quotas - no. Should we make sure that people get a chance - yes.

We know that in football the old boys network counts for a huge amount, and many clubs have someone lined up before they even sack the incumbent. But for those that do actually have a proper interview process (I think it's likely to be more common at lower levels, my club Oxford did go through a proper process when they appointed Chris Wilder a few years ago) then why on earth shouldn't we try to rectify the balance? Let's face it, the stats aren't great, are they? 25% of players are black but only 2% of managers, from the BBC reports!

It's a good point from Foxholer as well, if there's going to be a rule like this at the very top then we need to find a way to apply it further the down the coaching ladder. The pro badge isn't an easy course to get on, the FA probably needs to look at that 7% ratio there as well.

But just because something isn't going to cure all ills, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. And a Rooney rule would be a small step in the right direction IMO. 25% > 7% > 2%? It's not all down to overt racism but that's a set of figures that has to be worth trying to fix, surely?
 
Oxfordcomma said:
I like the idea and the thinking behind this proposal. Should anyone get a job based on race or quotas - no. Should we make sure that people get a chance - yes.

We know that in football the old boys network counts for a huge amount, and many clubs have someone lined up before they even sack the incumbent. But for those that do actually have a proper interview process (I think it's likely to be more common at lower levels, my club Oxford did go through a proper process when they appointed Chris Wilder a few years ago) then why on earth shouldn't we try to rectify the balance? Let's face it, the stats aren't great, are they? 25% of players are black but only 2% of managers, from the BBC reports!

It's a good point from Foxholer as well, if there's going to be a rule like this at the very top then we need to find a way to apply it further the down the coaching ladder. The pro badge isn't an easy course to get on, the FA probably needs to look at that 7% ratio there as well.

But just because something isn't going to cure all ills, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. And a Rooney rule would be a small step in the right direction IMO. 25% > 7% > 2%? It's not all down to overt racism but that's a set of figures that has to be worth trying to fix, surely?
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I kind of agree. There used too be a terrible misconception of black players 20 or 30 years ago in that they could not run, they had no bottle etc etc, which has been proven to be garbage. And there may well be a preconception about the managerial abilities of black players (as most of the managerial candidates nowadays are ex players). From looking at the statistics it seems that there is a huge imbalance.

The rule only is for people getting an interview, so it is essentially forcing people to have a look at black managers, not employ them. So they get a chance to show what they can do. And if they are rubbish they will not be employed. But at least they get the chance.
 
freddielong said:
You are still making a choice based on colour or race which is racist
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But the intent and and impact are different. Racism assumes that one race is more competent than the other and more deserving of consideration and is historically (and in some areas still) always a bad thing, affirmative action or whatever you want to call it, assumes all races are equal and just as competent. Racism in this case may be that white managers will make better managers than black ones. Affirmative action says they are both as equally qualified, therefore they should both be given the same chance.

And the impact of racism is that black managers are not considered, the impact of affirmative action is that in this case the white managers no longer receive the preferential treatment and black candidates are also considered, in addition to white candidates.
 
Hacker Khan said:
But the intent and and impact are different. Racism assumes that one race is more competent than the other and more deserving of consideration and is historically (and in some areas still) always a bad thing, affirmative action or whatever you want to call it, assumes all races are equal and just as competent. Racism in this case may be that white managers will make better managers than black ones. Affirmative action says they are both as equally qualified, therefore they should both be given the same chance.

And the impact of racism is that black managers are not considered, the impact of affirmative action is that in this case the white managers no longer receive the preferential treatment and black candidates are also considered, in addition to white candidates.
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Imagine the next 20 jobs come up. A black manager is interviewed for everyone but none get the jobs. All of a sudden the game is definitely racist according to some.

Imo there is no racist issue. To become a manager you generally need all the badges. In the latest stats provided. Did it mention how many black players had the relevant qualifications now?
 
How do they go about ensuring x amount of blacks (what about the lack of Asian, Latino, women etc managers btw) get an interview? Is it not breaking employment law asking an applicant what their skin colour/race is?

I concede I may be wrong on that point, but don't think I am.

As for the 'old pals act', are we expected to believe that black players did not make contacts within the game? Or is it just the white players that did? :mmm:

Look, racism is abhorrent, as is sexism, but you don't solve the problem by discriminating against another group of people. Imo that approach is more likely to lead to friction and a lack of respect for the person involved (she/he only got that job because they are black/female).

Another thing, has anyone considered that maybe there aren't many blacks applying for these jobs? Why just blacks, why not make sure we have x% women managers?

A tricky subject, but discriminating to stop discrimination is as ridiculous as it sounds. It should be against the law.
 
To paraphrase the superb "Not the 9 o'clock news" sketch from 30 years ago, I think the next manager's job should go to a blind, disabled, lesbian coloured dwarf.
 
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