Rollback

[D-S]

Interesting to hear on the Chipping Forecast PGA podcast that Cam Young hit the longest ever drive at the Players (on the 18th in the final round when winning it this year), over 370 yards, with a ball that will be conforming to the ‘rolled back’ ball rules.
So my guess is that it’s not going to be the solution that they are looking for.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Interesting to hear on the Chipping Forecast PGA podcast that Cam Young hit the longest ever drive at the Players (on the 18th in the final round when winning it this year), over 370 yards, with a ball that will be conforming to the ‘rolled back’ ball rules.
So my guess is that it’s not going to be the solution that they are looking for.

They were talking about it yesterday in the build up to the PGA and in his press conference they asked him about it. Can’t remember the exact number but his loss of distance was something ridiculous like 2yds on average.

It just makes a mockery of the whole ball
Roll back debate, they discussed it earlier in the live feed as well that what’s the point pushing through a change when no difference is being made.

 

[Orikoru]

Yeah I heard that, thought it was very interesting. Hopefully it will convince the authorities to can the idea.

 

[harpo_72]

I haven’t a problem with them rolling the ball back .. make it spin up or squash out .. most amateurs will never notice anyway. Watch the precision golf video on balata vs pro v1 ..

 

[wjemather]

Interesting to hear on the Chipping Forecast PGA podcast that Cam Young hit the longest ever drive at the Players (on the 18th in the final round when winning it this year), over 370 yards, with a ball that will be conforming to the ‘rolled back’ ball rules.
So my guess is that it’s not going to be the solution that they are looking for.

The proposal was never really a rollback but only an attempt to put the lid on. The problem is that the lid needed to be put on 25 years ago.

 

[Mel Smooth]

It was always a futile idea.

People trying to establish their own self importance and legacy in the game.

The issue has been caused by the size of the driver heads, but you won't see Mike Wahn stand up and tell the world you've got to throw your £500 driver in the bin in a few years time.

 

[KenL]

I am against this and they should let the game develop. I’d be quite happy for the best in the world to score really low.

I don’t like watching golf on tricked up courses where the rough is a foot deep a yard or so off the green.

Can you imagine if the Olympics put weight on sprinters to stop them getting faster?

 

[KenL]

The issue has been caused by the size of the driver heads, but you won't see Mike Wahn stand up and tell the world you've got to throw your £500 driver in the bin in a few years time.

That already happened when they scrapped the likes of the Callaway ERC driver.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I am against this and they should let the game develop. I’d be quite happy for the best in the world to score really low.

I don’t like watching golf on tricked up courses where the rough is a foot deep a yard or so off the green.

Can you imagine if the Olympics put weight on sprinters to stop them getting faster?

Did they ruin the javelin for you? How about tennis? Not the game it once was?

You soon adjust.

I don't see how a 370yd drive can be good for the game. I think it was Radar who went through the holes yesterday and was going driver, wedge, driver, wedge, driver wedge. That is not good.

 

[D-S]

Did they ruin the javelin for you? How about tennis? Not the game it once was?

You soon adjust.

I don't see how a 370yd drive can be good for the game. I think it was Radar who went through the holes yesterday and was going driver, wedge, driver, wedge, driver wedge. That is not good.

But the issue is that even after all the expense and faff of this process, this 370 yard drive (the longest ever at Sawgrass) will still happen - it was hit with a ball that will conform to the new rules coming in.

 

[wjemather]

I am against this and they should let the game develop. I’d be quite happy for the best in the world to score really low.

I don’t like watching golf on tricked up courses where the rough is a foot deep a yard or so off the green.

Can you imagine if the Olympics put weight on sprinters to stop them getting faster?

Rollback is about things like sustainability, boundary issues, balance of skills, etc.
It is not about scoring, and the problems are not only with the tour pro game.
New courses should not need to be 7500+ yards long, and existing championship venues continually extended onto adjacent properties just to accommodate the equipment - it's just ridiculous.
Many courses are experiencing huge problems with their boundaries as long and wayward higher handicappers blast it over the fences they couldn't reach 30 years ago (I could cite multiple examples within 25 miles of me alone).
In the elite game (yes, course setups are bad far too often, but) holes have to be ridiculous lengths relative to par just to get mid and long irons into the hands of the players.

There are limits on running shoes, not to stop times getting faster but to ensure the athlete and not the equipment is primarily responsible, and the relevant authorities continuously amend the rules as new technology is introduced to maintain the primacy of the athlete.
Golf's governing bodies have failed to address several key technological advances and the equipment is now far too easy to hit very long and straight (enough) for elite players; there is little consequence for off-centre hits. Because of this failure, when action is now eventually being taken (however inadequate it is) there is a massive backlash, mostly driven by the equipment manufacturers and their (often paid) useful idiots on social media and sponsored tour players with a campaign of misinformation and disinformation.

Golf will not be harmed one iota by readjusting to keep the ball within the boundaries of existing courses, rather than continuing the insanity of extending the boundaries (or otherwise modifying courses).

 

[Neilds]

Rollback is about things like sustainability, boundary issues, balance of skills, etc.
It is not about scoring, and the problems are not only with the tour pro game.
New courses should not need to be 7500+ yards long, and existing championship venues continually extended onto adjacent properties just to accommodate the equipment - it's just ridiculous.
Many courses are experiencing huge problems with their boundaries as long and wayward higher handicappers blast it over the fences they couldn't reach 30 years ago.
In the elite game (yes, course setups are bad far too often, but) holes have to be ridiculous lengths relative to par just to get mid and long irons into the hands of the players.

There are limits on running shoes, not to stop times getting faster but to ensure the athlete and not the equipment is primarily responsible, and the relevant authorities continuously amend the rules as new technology is introduced to maintain the primacy of the athlete.
Golf's governing bodies have failed to address several key technological advances and the equipment is now far too easy to hit very long and straight (enough) for elite players; there is little consequence for off-centre hits. Because of this failure, when action is now eventually being taken (however inadequate it is) there is a massive backlash, mostly driven by the equipment manufacturers and their (often paid) useful idiots on social media with a campaign of misinformation and disinformation.

Golf will not be harmed one iota by readjusting to keep the ball within the boundaries of existing courses, rather than continuing the insanity of extending the boundaries (or otherwise modifying courses).

Totally agree. You can also draw parallels with swimming and the banning of the all in one swimsuits they all used a few years ago. Has swimming lost any appeal to spectators as the use of technology has been removed? i don't think so.

 

[KenL]

Was this 370 yard drive downwind? Did it land on a downslope? Was the fairway running quickly?

I’ve hit drives over 300 yards downwind on links fairways, absolutely not the norm for me. That 370 yard drive was not the norm either.

 

[KenL]

Totally agree. You can also draw parallels with swimming and the banning of the all in one swimsuits they all used a few years ago. Has swimming lost any appeal to spectators as the use of technology has been removed? i don't think so.

I see that as different as the excitement of swimming is the race between competitors.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Rollback is about things like sustainability, boundary issues, balance of skills, etc.
It is not about scoring, and the problems are not only with the tour pro game.
New courses should not need to be 7500+ yards long, and existing championship venues continually extended onto adjacent properties just to accommodate the equipment - it's just ridiculous.
Many courses are experiencing huge problems with their boundaries as long and wayward higher handicappers blast it over the fences they couldn't reach 30 years ago.
In the elite game (yes, course setups are bad far too often, but) holes have to be ridiculous lengths relative to par just to get mid and long irons into the hands of the players.

There are limits on running shoes, not to stop times getting faster but to ensure the athlete and not the equipment is primarily responsible, and the relevant authorities continuously amend the rules as new technology is introduced to maintain the primacy of the athlete.
Golf's governing bodies have failed to address several key technological advances and the equipment is now far too easy to hit very long and straight (enough) for elite players; there is little consequence for off-centre hits. Because of this failure, when action is now eventually being taken (however inadequate it is) there is a massive backlash, mostly driven by the equipment manufacturers and their (often paid) useful idiots on social media with a campaign of misinformation and disinformation.

Golf will not be harmed one iota by readjusting to keep the ball within the boundaries of existing courses, rather than continuing the insanity of extending the boundaries (or otherwise modifying courses).

We are at a level with the equipment,so the authorities should now say thats it and any more proven increases of more than 1% would make that item illegal and non comforming. What they could (and should do) is make accuracy a premium over length. I doubt there's any club that doesnt shut itself to play 3 months before they host a comp. Let the rough grow and narrow the fairways. Make behind the spectator ropes OOB on every hole. Stop manicuring bunkers and take away the rakes for the tournament. Make the risk and reward greater in each way for every shot, and reward those who play a more tactical game.
Of course, whilst the headline is the 370 yd drive at Sawgrass, lets not forget that the ball goes further in the warm air and playing the same ball in the North East at 5 degress isn't going to go as far.
Players are also so much more athletes now than in the past, bigger, fitter and faster so that will also contribute.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But the issue is that even after all the expense and faff of this process, this 370 yard drive (the longest ever at Sawgrass) will still happen - it was hit with a ball that will conform to the new rules coming in.

Agreed, they should have made the change greater. This looks as though it is tinkering at best. The change should be greater, at elite level (yes, bifurication should happen)

 

[wjemather]

We are at a level with the equipment,so the authorities should now say thats it and any more proven increases of more than 1% would make that item illegal and non comforming. What they could (and should do) is make accuracy a premium over length. I doubt there's any club that doesnt shut itself to play 3 months before they host a comp. Let the rough grow and narrow the fairways. Make behind the spectator ropes OOB on every hole. Stop manicuring bunkers and take away the rakes for the tournament. Make the risk and reward greater in each way for every shot, and reward those who play a more tactical game.
Of course, whilst the headline is the 370 yd drive at Sawgrass, lets not forget that the ball goes further in the warm air and playing the same ball in the North East at 5 degress isn't going to go as far.
Players are also so much more athletes now than in the past, bigger, fitter and faster so that will also contribute.

Setting the cap at the current state is really all this proposed non-'rollback' is doing.

And again, the issues are not confined to the pro tour game. Narrowing fairways, growing rough, etc. just put an even bigger premium on strength and distance; they do not reward strategy.

The distance increase over the last 30 years is almost all down to the equipment. Players in their 50s who are unquestionably weaker, more unfit and slower than they were 30 years ago are hitting the ball further than they did in their 20s.

 

[harpo_72]

A suggestion at my club was to make the greens harder … but that penalises the shorter player. Personally I think par 5 greens should be small, like short par 3s. As for rough, it’s a great concept but you will have a lot of time looking because long hitters don’t feel obliged to back off… I do feel anything deep from 280 to 340 is fine, that’s not an unreasonable carry requirement or it could be a very narrow part of the fairway..
What we are all forgetting is that there are very good players marginalised by distance. Spray and pray is the current strategy, until some one says “reload, I am not looking for that”

 

[Lord Tyrion]

A suggestion at my club was to make the greens harder … but that penalises the shorter player. Personally I think par 5 greens should be small, like short par 3s. As for rough, it’s a great concept but you will have a lot of time looking because long hitters don’t feel obliged to back off… I do feel anything deep from 280 to 340 is fine, that’s not an unreasonable carry requirement or it could be a very narrow part of the fairway..
What we are all forgetting is that there are very good players marginalised by distance. Spray and pray is the current strategy, until some one says “reload, I am not looking for that”

The pro's rarely lose a ball because of marshalls and spectators looking. They are fine 'gouging out' so as you say, rough doesn't frighten them.

 

[Neilds]

I see that as different as the excitement of swimming is the race between competitors.

They thought they were swimming too fast and technology was overtaking natural ability, same thing as the golf equipment.